De-humanization amongst the Muslims.



  • The question needs to be asked.

    Why is it that amongst the Muslims , the proclaimed followers of Islam the majority of the people live in abject poverty while a small minority exploits them for their own profit and well being.

    Any objective student of ethics and morality has to be appalled at this scheme of things since we do claim Islam to be the BEST system in the world for human beings.

    Well, the answer is rather simple and let me explain.

    For any human being- it is distasteful to treat another human being in a bad and inhuman way. It is stressful for the emotional and psychological well being.

    So what is to be done?

    Well, imagine that those you are exploiting are less than human or not human at all.

    That is De-humanization for you. There are 10000s of examples but I will make it clean and palatable for you and quote a very few examples of this phenomenon.

    A few recent examples-

    1. Germany- 2nd world war. The Jews and gypsies and other non-Aryans were declared vermin. So extermination became acceptable.

    2. An older example in North America where the Native people9 Red Indians) were declared less than human and to kill them and finish them off became OK.

    1. Iraq- Saddam Hussein in his “philosophy” declared the Shia and the Iranians equal to Flies and so it was OK to kill them.

    2. In Korea and Vietnam Wars the American soldiers were taught the term GOOK” to de-humanize their opposing soldiers and civilians and it became OK to kill them.

    3. In the Muslim world- we have declared 50 % of our population(women) as

    Naqis Ul Aql-( with defective intelligence) and thus sub-human.

    And I could go on ad infinitum but you get the message.

    I feel that the reason our poor in Pakistan stay poor while we use them and exploit them continuously is simple- we have declared them Sub-Human and even though we will deny it- that is how we justify it to our own selves. And once we de-humanize them- well it does not bother us anymore while they go hungry and their kids died of diseases while we eat Chicken Karahee and Kata Kut and ride in BMWs.



  • i think it is human nature to find some excuse to put blame on some other reason, just like shimatoree put blame on "de-huminzation theory" some other put blame on some other causes as means of absolving oneself of responsibility

    bottom line is that the middle class that eats chicken karahee or kata kut does keep some how isolated and behave as absolved of responsibility -why?



  • Let me tackle the point 5 of Shimatoree.

    5. In the Muslim world- we have declared 50 % of our population(women) as Naqis Ul Aql-( with defective intelligence) and thus sub-human.

    This is a concocted lie spread by Zionist thugs. In reality it is quite the contrary. The Western Women is the one in that category. Muslim women although not upto the mark laid down by Islam are much better than the "emancipated" eye candy women of the West. The problems facing Muslim women have nothing to do with defective intelligence but their inability to live as Muslims as per guidelines dictated by Quran and Sunnah.

    In a civilized culture such as Islam, the façade of unnatural beauty is seen as a lie, and natural beauty is seen as a private affair. Emphasis is placed, not on external beauty, but instead on internal beauty, of which all women have equal potential. (All men are created equal, why not, therefore, all women?) Where unnatural beauty is caked on, rubbed in, or drawn on, natural beauty is cultured by nobility of character, mercy, honesty, compassion, intelligence and other such Islamically recommended traits in Muslims of both genders.

    Islam frees women from being every man's eye-candy, and clearly states that her appearance and sexuality are not public domain. They are a privilege bestowed upon only those who were worthy, and worthiness is determined by whether or not one is fit to spend a life-time with you. (That means your soul mate-your husband) The only other people who can see it would be those who were unaffected by it, like your brothers, father, blood-uncles, grand-father, and other women.

    Islam has shown itself to be absolutely the most uplifting religion for women, period. Given the right to vote, right to own, right to inherit, right to speak, right to be judged on internal factors, Islam rescues woman kind from being overshadowed by her sexuality and gives a woman back her humanity.



  • Spot on AR, about women not being a sex object in Islam. But how about women and the development of their intellect, their education, their possibility to find occupation in the work place, etc. Would you say Islam allows them to do this freely as well?



  • MG, Yes. Within the limits prescribed by Shariah. Remember Ayesha RA taught the Muslims for decades having narrated tens of thousands of Ahadiths. She was Ummuhat al Mumineen and a great teacher. But important point to note is that she did that behind the veil.



  • Thanks AR. And I remember the case of Hazrate Ayesha well enough. But then, AR, in today's world how is a woman going to learn or teach or work from behind the veil? Any idea there? Or isn't it the equivalent of saying women must remain within their own four walls and give up any thought of really studying or finding a job? If that is so, it might explain what shimatoree meant by 50% of our population are regarded as being of defective intelligence.



  • Mirza Sahib-

    your quote "about women not being a sex object in Islam. "

    Let us for one minute forget about what Islam says in this specific matter.

    I would have to take your statement with a 1000 grains of salt.

    The fact of the matter is that women are thought of nothing other than SEX objects.

    What is the evidence you ask ?

    Just look at the population explosion of Pakistan. You do not suppose kids are coming into the country from India as a Jewish conspiracy !

    Look at the LOOKS Men give to any woman in the bazars of the Muslim world. You will know.

    And if you go to the rural areas- you will hear a lot more graphic language when it comes to women.

    And also keep in mind that according to the statistics kept by Google- the two countries which are TOPS in pornographic web site hits are- Saudi Arabia and Pakistan.

    So , please let us have a little intellectual honesty here.

    And now to the refuge of- Well this problem lies with the people- Islam does not say that.

    If I am not wrong there is a Hadith where the Prophet(PBUH) did say that women are Naqis Ul Aql.



  • AR-

    No further comment is needed as my thread speaks for itself.

    And please do not Highjack this thread into your pet subject- attack on Islam.

    Comment on the subject matter of de-humanization esp. amongst the Muslims.



  • This post is deleted!


  • @all

    Topic of this thread is De-humanization among the Muslims and in no way a debate about Male Chauvinism/Radical Feminism/feminine liberation.

    All off topic content will be removed.

    Kindly stay on topic.



  • shimatoree, you argued that point well above. What I meant was ideally women are not supposed to be sex objects in Islam. But I fully accept your rectification of my statement according to the arguments you put forward.

    And I was in no way talking feminism and neither, I think, was AR exactly. We were discussing something you yourself put forward in the context of your premiss of dehumanisation of the population amongst Muslims where, according to you, among other things, about 50% of the population were accorded the status of Naqis Ul Aql.



  • @shimatoree

    "3. Iraq- Saddam Hussein in his “philosophy” declared the Shia and the Iranians equal to Flies and so it was OK to kill them."

    Sorry but I have not heard this one before nor could find a reference of any kind. Can you point me to some resource? Certainly a similar example is how "Bengalis" were portrayed in West Pakistan and negros in America (and Africa) and there are tons of such examples (as it is always very helpful for people are generally uncomfortable killing those they consider their own species. So this spin of de-humanizing is sort of a necessity to make war on a people. In fact I will go further and say it IS a necessity of war; war without this is just not possible. "Dehumanize the Enemy" is ALWAYS rule no. 1)



  • nota-

    Regarding Saddam Hussein-

    it is direct quote from him talking about his uncle and father in law who said the same about the Iranians.-( personal communication from Lt. Gen. K.S.Randhawa who was a advisor to Saddam Hussein in 1991- (a family friend)

    I will dig up the exact ref:

    As usual you are right on the money when you said that De-humanization is a pre-requisite for war. Normal human beings do not want to kill anyone. They have to be Brain Washed into the mindset before they become killers.

    Your comment about the African slaves in Amerixa-( and elsewhere) is also correct and I did not mention that because I did not wish to burden everyone with details.

    Your comment on Bengalis is as you would say SPOT ON.

    The same is being used by a some HERE for the Talibs.

    During the last year of my training at Syracuse University- I spent about 6 months studying this subject of De-humanization in human history.

    Needless to say it has made me a better human being.



  • Mirza Sahib-

    Once again I shall state that my purpose in putting forth this thread is have all of us examine this phenomenon.

    If we leave the West, the Jews and the Hindus out of this and just look at what has been done to human beings by other human beings and why?

    Then we find that under normal circumstances- it is very difficult to kill a human being.

    In 1965 when I saw the torn apart bodies of Indian soldiers at Chamb-Jaurian- I asked myself a few questions.

    Did those soldiers have families ?

    Did those soldiers have children?

    Did they have wives ? Would their wives cry when they heard about their deaths?

    Was it worth it that they died and if so for what.

    Would it not be better if that did not happen ?

    And then I thought of our own whom we had burried but we did not burry the Indian soldiers ?

    When I asked, I was told we have burried our own.

    So I asked myself this question. What makes a human being do that sort of thing to another human being and I have been studying this ever since.

    The answer that I have found is that before you can kill or harm anyone you have to convince yourself that somehow they are less than human - in other words De-humanization.

    Now as regards the place of women in Islamic societies-

    Now that is topic for another thread.



  • nota-

    And we might mention the Hindu Caste system and the institutionalized de-humanization of the untouchables for the sake of completion-

    esp for those in our midst who are in AWE of the Indian democracy.



  • The answer that I have found is that before you can kill or harm anyone you have to convince yourself that somehow they are less than human - in other words De-humanization.

    no not necessarily, we see from history of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and his noble companions that this wasn't the case -please broaden up your study a little more.



  • @Salam

    "no not necessarily, we see from history of Prophet Muhammad PBUH and his noble companions that this wasn't the case -please broaden up your study a little more."

    Oh, picky, picky! :)

    But then let's not forget you had to go back 1400+ years for an example. That alone confirms it, doesn't it?



  • going back to the future :)

    we today believe in Islam so it is a matter of today's reality.

    shimatoree seems to be fascinated by what he studied at syracuse school and is quick to apply on muslims with underlying hint of touching/hitting islamic value system-



  • Shimatoree, once again and with all due respect: I don't think AR and I were off-topic in our few timid comments. We were expanding on point 5 of what you yourself wrote initially.

    Otherwise, the topic itself is so vast, I for one feel quite unable to comment on it as a whole. Had I had the strength to do so, I should probably have pointed out that the model of dehumanisation came to us from Brahminism and the venerable Jews who taught us that they were the People Elect, a select group with every right to lord it over the rest of mankind. I don't quite know how the Brahmins consider the rest of humanity, the Jews call all non-Jews cattle (goyim) abd therefore worthy of being killed without sin. And I may have gone on to argue that Islam with its extraordinary philosophy of absolute egalitarianism was strictly against dehumanisaton so that the adjective in your title may have been a bit of a misnomer.

    Conclusion: We have not dehumanised the masses. We. the masters, have dehumanised ourselves.



  • lovely comment mirza ghalib, i enjoyed how you elegantly touched the heart of matter with beautiful examples-