Why Qadiyani's?



  • Why Qadyanis (is ahmedi the second name of qadyani?) believe in False prophet (Mirza Ghulam Ahmed)?

    How many symbols or conditions does he fulfill of being a Prophet?

    I know him as the replacement of coming back Jesus



  • Because Money is belief. People can change their belief for money. The Jew and christian supports qadianis and they are spending million and billion of $ on the Propagation of qadianiat.

    A bad exchange from qadianis to sell their enternity.



  • SS

    Seriously man.. where the hell do you get this nonsense??



  • HKB, Are you and Super Soldier going to get into one of your famous, epic discussions? Well, I'll keep dropping in from time to time and note how the two of you tear each other to pieces.



  • hkbajwa.

    May be U don't know what i know. I know how ur thoughts conflict with the teaching of Islam. There is clash of thoughts Qadiani's and original Islam. How people have changed the Islam u may call it revival of Islam but muslims never revived from the teaching of Mirza Ghulam. If Quran is guideline than muslim will never down.Muslim are going down because they are not following islam. Look Muslims are getting down and Down. This is how a new generation is created by Britisher and Jew to change Islam.

    The new generation of Qadianis is like a flower who seed was once soiled by Britisher and Jews.

    This is like a remote and remote is in the hand of jews and christian.

    Hqbajwa u may differ and u may don't like but it always hurts when someone speak against his faith. But Hqbajwa i have searched on qadianiat. If qadainiat happen to be true than i would have been it's follower first.



  • MG

    Yeah it's beginning to get monotonous. Surprisingly hariskhan never seems to jump in to bolster the only-we-know-what-islam-is-and-if-you-don't-do-as-the-saintly-mullahs-say-you-are-going-to-hell-you-zionist-conspirator argument.

    SS

    My thoughts differ with YOUR thoughts on Islam. Only God can judge whether my thoughts are contrary to islam or not.

    Anyhow i care not whether you think ahmedis are right or wrong. What bothers me is the nonsense conspiracy theories you spout that have absolutely no evidence and are contrived ONLY to malign a certain faith.

    It is true that muslims are going down and down. Yet instead of looking for the problems that exist within the woefully primitive, chauvinistic, and inadequate dogma espoused by "islamic" leaders, you do what every two-bit politician in pakistan does. You revert to the "foreign conspiracy" theory to explain this fall from grace. Total nonsense.

    Look i have had people speaking against my faith all my life. Whether as an ahmedi in pakistan or as a muslim in europe. I have no issues with somebody disagreeing with it. What i DO have a problem with is spending my time trying to

    1. establish my basic human right to believe what i beleive without being condemned for it

    2. establish that i am not part of a d@mn jewish conspiracy

    3. fight for my right to express and promote my personal views on islam without being summarily dismissed based not on the content of my argument but on the affiliation of my ancestors.

    You have never approached ahmedis or their faith with an open mind. if you had, then at the very least you would not come with idiotic statements like the britisher/zionist conspiracy.

    My entire family has predominantly non-ahmedi friends, and while none have ever converted, they have all come to realize that the fuss about ahmedis and the hatred that exists in this society against them is not only unjustified, but actually shameful to "regular" muslims.

    I know that there are several debaters on this forum who also disagree vehemently with the whole Mirza Ghulam Ahmed issue, but even they distance themselves from the hatemongering of the mullah and mullah-types.

    I don't mind that you couldn't be bothered to research ahmediyyat with intellectual honesty, but at least don't pretend like you have. finding hate-material regarding ahmedis on jihadi websites does not count as "research". I have told you many a time that if you really want to research and criticize, you should do so based on the official statements and policies of the ahmedi community as presented on their website www.alislam.org or on the ahmedi satellite channel. To base it on the second-hand accounts as presented by avowedly anti-ahmedi websites will do nothing more than confirm your prejudices.

    it is because of this so-called "research" that you come up with ignorant jewish/british/ahmedi conspiracy theories that you do.

    As to the next generation of ahmedis you clearly don't know what you are talking about. nopt only are they better educated in both wordly and spiritual subjects than the average pakistani (we can thank the absence of a mullah culture amongst ahmedis for that), they are also more peaceful and tolerant than the average "regular" muslim.

    Never has an ahmedi been involved in terror activities and never have ahmedis taken the law into their own hands and avenged the violence and destruction visited upon them by our oh-so-righteous mullahs and the hate-filled mobs that they incite.

    It is not for me to say who is right and who is wrong though. As far as i am concerned, i hope every human goes to heaven.



  • Hqbajwa

    U are nice man, U r a good man. but problem start with Mirza Ghulam Qadiani. There are blasphemous statement in the books Mirza Ghulam which u always try to ignore, I know u believe in Kalima u believe in Prophet Muhammad. But the difference arises when u show ur self to be a follower of Mirza. Why u don't reject Mirza Ghulam. Why u are confused.?

    The man who is follower of Prophet Muhammad Peace be upon doen't need anyone to follow.

    Hqbajwa

    Who can be more zaalim than the one who fabricates a lie on Allah or says that he receives revelation whereas nothing has been revealed to him – AlQuran.

    Hqbajwa I invite u to ponder what i am presenting. These are not my word. These are not from conspiracy sites/

    A Liar Needs a Good Memory

    Montaigne said that to be a successful liar the number one qualification is a superb memory. A successful liar needs not only to keep the facts straight, but also to keep straight all his various and contradictory versions of the facts. It's a big job.

    "No man has a good enough memory to make a successful liar." -

    -- Abraham Lincoln

    Hqbajwa

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani, the founder of Ahmadiyya Movement, claimed to be a Prophet of Allah, Promised Messiah and Imam Mahdi, all in one and many more. He claimed that he is the recipient of divine inspiration (wahi) and that God has taught him everything, without the intervention of any human being.

    "And as I believe in the verses of Holy Quran, likewise without the slightest difference i believe in that revelation of God that has come to me ..... And i can stand in Khana Ka'aba and swear that that pious revelation which comes to me, is the word of the same God who had sent His revelations on Moses and Jesus and Hazrat Muhammad SallAllaho alaihe wassalm." (Aik Ghaltee kaa Izala p.6, Roohani Khazain vol.18 p. 210)

    "I swear upon God I believe in these inspirations in similar manner as on Holy Quran and other Books from God, and just as I consider Holy Quran definitely and absolutely word of God, likewise i believe that that revelation that descends on me is the word of God." (Haqeeqatul Wahi p.211, Roohani Khazain vol.22 p.220)

    Thus we are right in assuming that whatever Mirza Ghulam had said or written in his books had been transpired from God therefore there is no question of any mistakes or lies or fabrications. Mirza said:

    “Without doubt God never leaves me with a mistake, even for the duration of blink of the eye; and He protects me from every mistake and protects me from the ways of satans.” (Nur ul Haq Last page, Roohani Khazain vol. 8 p 372)

    “'Kullama qulto qulto min amrahoo, wa maa fa'alto un amree, wa maa aftaraito 'alaa Rabbi al'Alaa' - Whatever I have said, I have said it with His (God) order and I have not done anything of my own desire and I have not fabricated anything on my Lord.” (Mawahibur Rehman p 3, Roohani Khazain vol.19 p.221)

    “ ‘wa maa unteqo unil hawa in howa illa wahun yooha' - he does not say anything of his own volition, rather whatever you hear it is the revelation of God." (Arba'een No. 3, Roohani Khazain vol.17, p. 426-427)

    These statements of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani are very clear. Whatever he did or said, whatever he wrote, all his 83 odd books, 10 volumes of Mafoozaat as well as collection of revelations called Tadhkirah, and 3 volumes of Collections of Advertisements are directly transpired from God, according to him. I am sure that Ahmadis/Qadianis/ will agree with me on this point.

    Now if there is any mistake in these books or any lies, then who is responsible??? Can we say that it is from God (Ma'azAllah)? Unless of course his 'God' lied to him to ridicule him in the eyes of his opponents. Since Allah cannot make a mistake or make a false statement, there can be another explanation that is equally possible, and most probable, that the source of all these inspirations and revelations was SATAN, brought to Mirza Ghulam by 'Eil', 'Tichee Tichee', 'Khairaatee'. I leave that decision for the readers.

    In the following series I would be showing some stark examples of fabrications, misrepresentations of facts and frank lies. But before I proceed to do, please read what Mirza Ghulam has to say about someone who fabricates a lie:

    "Lying is not less than apostasy." (Arba'een No.3 p.24 footnote, Roohani Khazain vol.17 p. 56, 407)

    "When someone is proven a liar in one thing, then he is no longer reliable in other matters." (Chashma-e-Ma'arifat p.222, Roohani Khazain vol. 23 p.231)

    Mirza Ghulam has mentioned in his books that there are two kinds of inspirations:

    1. Inspiration from God (Ilham Rehmani)

    2. Inspiration from Satan (Ilham Shaitaani)

    Inspiration from God is always correct. Satanic inspiration is mostly false but may be correct at times when he wants to mislead the person for a greater gain. Mirza's revelations/inspirations should also be judged along the same line.

    Fabrication Series No. 1

    I will start this time from few examples from the writings of Mirza Ghulam which concern historical facts and therefore verifiable by independent sources. No interpretation required, no explanation is necessary, in other words simple straight forward writings.

    "Historians know that in His (Holy Prophet SAAW) house 11 boys were born and all of them died...." (Chashma-e-Ma'arifat p.286, Roohani Khazain vol. 23 p.299)

    "See in our Prophet of God's (SAAW) house 12 girls were born, He never said why boy was not born." (Malfoozaat vol.6 p.57)

    “Holy Prophet SAAW did not even get a chance to learn mother tongue from his parents, because by the age of six months both were dead.” (Ayam-us-Sulh p. 150, Roohani Khazain vol. 14 p. 396 footnote)

    Hqbajwa

    Open any book of history or biography of Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW. He had four boys and four girls. None of them says that Holy Prophet SAAW had 12 girls or 11 boys. Holy Prophet SAAW's father died before he was born and his mother passed away when he was 6 years old.

    What was the source of Mirza Ghulam's information? Now read this:

    "Whatever I have said, I have said it with His (God) order and I have not done anything of my own desire and I have not fabricated anything on my Lord.” (Mawahibur Rehman p 3, Roohani Khazain vol.19 p.221)

    So who is this 'god' giving such false information, ridiculing his own 'prophet'?? Is it possible that these were inspirations from Satan? Or was it that Mirza was confused? But then God does not leave Mirza on a mistake even for a blink of an eye, as he boasted.

    “Without doubt God never leaves me with a mistake, even for the duration of blink of the eye; and He protects me from every mistake and protects me from the ways of satans.” (Nur ul Haq Last page, Roohani Khazain vol. 8 p 372)

    Whatever is the source of this revelation and whoever is behind this revelation, one thing is for certain. This revelation is not from Allah this is definitely from Satan. What guarantee is there that others are not from the same source.



  • hkbajwa

    very well stated! Down with the Mullah. Go Amrika Go, Go Mullah Go!



  • SS

    I'm certainly not well versed in ahmedi doctrine, nor have i immersed myself in any of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed's books. Whether a person chooses to study his preaching and deem it divine or diabolical is really none of my business.

    I merely base my personal opinion on the community on the exemplary behavior i have seen from it. The peacefulness of the community, the absence of militant mullahism, the egalitarianism it espouses, the equality given to women, the respect for differing opinion and the dedication to whichever society the community exists in, indicate to me that it is not as evil or destructive as our lovely mullahs paint it out to be.

    My whole issue with you and other mullahists has always been the assumption they have that it is acceptable to deprive ahmedis of their right to define, follow and express their faith "because it is evil". I have no problem with people thinking its "evil". I do have a problem with the injustices perpetrated on ahmedis as a result of this label.

    these injustices are further justified by nonsense conspiracy theories like the jewish/british/ahmedi idiocy i have heard so often. I take issue with this also because it is no more than unsubstantiated vicious rumors meant only to malign all ahmedis.

    I would also just like to point to the fact that your entire post speaks of theological issues. you do not refer to the jewish/british/ahmedi conspiracy theory that you flung out so unthinkingly.

    I would very much like you to make up your mind. According to you is ahmadiyyat the work of Satan or the jews/britishers?



  • hqbajwa

    I'm certainly not well versed in ahmedi doctrine, nor have i immersed myself in any of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed's books. Whether a person chooses to study his preaching and deem it divine or diabolical is really none of my business.

    Well Hqbajwa there is another big problem here, We muslims as well christian today not following the scripture. I believe if today Christian honestly read their Bible they will accept Islam. But Christian and jews today are following Media and Their Parents. Not the scripture. Same is the problem with u said that u are not well versed in Ahemdi doctrine but u are impressed with their peace and harmony. Today Muslim may be bad LIKE Mullahs and whatever u said it doesn't mean that Islam is bad and u should leave Islam and look for a society which is more peaceful. I give u the example of Dajjal (A great fitna). The follower of the Dajjal will more peaceful than the people who are against Dajjal. it doesn't mean Dajjal is right.

    Hqbajwa

    I am presenting this to u because u don't read what is written scripture of Ahemdi as the Jews and christian.

    The world is test for Believers. Allah says in Quran

    (Truly, the religion with Allah is Islam. Those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) did not differ except out of mutual jealousy, after knowledge had come to them. And whoever disbelieves in the Ayat(proofs,evidences, verses, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allah, then surely, Allah is Swift in calling to account.

    So if they dispute with you (Muhammad SAW))

    (say: "I have submitted myself to Allah (in Islam), and (so have) those who follow me.

    " And say to those who were given the Scripture (Jews and Christians) and to those who are illiterates (Arab pagans)

    "Do you (also) submit yourselves (to Allah in Islam)?" If they do, they are rightly guided; but if they turn away, your duty is only to convey the Message; and Allah is All-Seer of (His ) slaves) 3:19-20

    Look at the Christian and Jew who are pure example, they don't follow scripture but they look at the facts.

    I merely base my personal opinion on the community on the exemplary behavior i have seen from it. The peacefulness of the community, the absence of militant mullahism, the egalitarianism it espouses, the equality given to women, the respect for differing opinion and the dedication to whichever society the community exists in, indicate to me that it is not as evil or destructive as our lovely mullahs paint it out to be.

    A peace full society created by Dajjal

    Other Ahadeeth regarding Dajjal inform us that:

    He will have with him fire and water, but in reality the fire will be cold water while that what appears to be cold water will in reality be a blazing fire.

    Those who obey him will enter "his Jannat" while those who disobey him will enter "his Jahannam."

    He will have a wheatish complexion.

    He will travel at great speeds and his means of conveyance will be a gigantic mule. It is said that he will play beautiful music which will attract the music lovers.

    Dajjal will lay claim to prophethood.

    He will then lay claim to Divinity.

    He will perform unusual feats.

    He will travel the entire world. He will send down rains upon those who believe in him, which in turn will cause good crops to grow, trees to bear fruit and cattle to grow fat.

    He will cause drought to those who disbelieve in him, resulting in starvation and hardship for them.

    During those trying times the Mu'mineen (believer)will satiate their hunger through the recitation of Subhanallah and La'ilaha Ilallahu.

    The hidden treasures will spill forth at his command. He will stay on this Earth for a period of forty days; the length of the first day will be one year, the second day will be equal to one month, the third day will be equal to a week and the remaining days will be normal.

    He will be unable to enter Makkah because the Malaikah will be guarding the Holy City and nor will he be able to enter Madina because there will be Malaikah guarding each of the seven entrances to Madina; From Madina he will proceed towards Shaam where Imaam Mahdi will be stationed.

    Finally Isa (A.S.) will descend from the heavens and pursue him and eventually kill him at present day Lydda (Baad Lud)

    Hqbajwa

    I have present this information for u to show that World is hell for Momineen. Because they are tested by Allah Subhana Wa Tahala. U can't make ur believes on the base of peaceful society. If believes are made on the base of peaceful society than christian are more peaceful than muslims.

    We muslim are going down because we don't follow scripture.

    My whole issue with you and other mullahists has always been the assumption they have that it is acceptable to deprive ahmedis of their right to define, follow and express their faith "because it is evil". I have no problem with people thinking its "evil". I do have a problem with the injustices perpetrated on ahmedis as a result of this label.

    Hqbajwa

    These are not assumption. May be u are true in ur faith as u admitted that u don't know what is written in the books of Mirza Ghulam. Look if anyone say i follow Mirza Ghulam. it mean he is also follower of his books. Serious contradiction exist in the books of Mirza Ghulam and Mirza Ghulam Claimed that these book are from Allah. Do u think Allah made the errors and contradiction. If u don't follow the books of Mirza Ghlam than why u call ur self Ahemdi. U are Muslim and i like muslims (The man who submit his will to Allah subahan Tahalla). I have nothing any dispute with.

    Simply say i believe in Allah and his prophet and I don't follow Mirza. Simple is that

    these injustices are further justified by nonsense conspiracy theories like the jewish/british/ahmedi idiocy i have heard so often. I take issue with this also because it is no more than unsubstantiated vicious rumors meant only to malign all ahmedis.

    I already told u common ahemdies don't know what game is being played.

    I would very much like you to make up your mind. According to you is ahmadiyyat the work of Satan or the jews/britishers?

    Look hqbajwa u don't know what is written in the books of Mirza Ghulam. I believe Ahemdis are non believers because i have read his books. His books are man made. Serious lies exist in the books of Mirza Ghulam. I don't think u are follower of Satan because u don't know what is written his books.



  • SS

    If "common ahmedis" are unaware of the "game" being played, then how in the heck are YOU privy to such information? Ahmedis are not a flock of sheep being herded around by powerhungry salvation peddlers. That particular characteristic is far more applicable to the vast cohorts controlled by fanatic mullahs that lead our terrorist and militant organizations.

    I also find it ridiculous that (according to you) to be a muslim one must submit to allah, beleive in the prophethood of Muahmmad (pbuh) and ALSO STATE NON-BELIEF in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. Sounds like an addition to the Kalma to me honestly.

    Fact of the matter is that there is no question that ahmedis submit to allah, consider themselves of the ummah of Muhammad (pbuh) and believe without reservation in the words of the Quran. End of story. The ahmedi community do consider Mirza Ghulam Ahmed to be the Reformer, but so what? How does that contradict anything in the Quran?

    You tell me that for the beleiver, this world is like hell. Sounds frighteningly like classic christian doctrine btw. This is a sociological method whereby powerful leaders use religion to create a submissive population that consider the injustices against them to be divinely ordained and enduring such injustices is equated to holiness. I do not understand why it is that Allah in the Quran tells human beings how to live perfect lives in this world IF IT'S NEVER MEANT TO BE.

    As far as i am concerned, for the believer even the hell of this world is like heaven because he basks in the light of faith.

    Anyhow we are moving out into another theological debate (like the countless ones we have had already). My issue with you in this thread is merely the unsubstantiated and quite irrelevant jewish/british/ahmedi conspiracy theory that you presented. This allegation is nothing that can be proven in any way. It can however also not be DISPROVEN. But we all know the strength of rumors. Repeat them enough times and people will start to take them as truths.

    It is unsubstantiated rumors like this that add fuel to an already intolerant fire. Present all the arguments and counterarguments against ahmedi belief you wish. but do not perpetuate untrue and unproven allegations simply because they fit in with your greater conspiracy theory.



  • @SS

    Because Money is belief.

    One can say the same about anyone without any reason and without any logic.

    "I give u the example of Dajjal (A great fitna)."

    can you please explain it here http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/what-is-dajjaal?

    **Why Qadyanis believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, the false prophet?

    How many symbols or conditions does he fulfill of being a Prophet?**

    I am expecting a Qadyani to answer



  • Ooh; I missed all that.



  • Hqbajwa

    If "common ahmedis" are unaware of the "game" being played, then how in the heck are YOU privy to such information? Ahmedis are not a flock of sheep being herded around by powerhungry salvation peddlers. That particular characteristic is far more applicable to the vast cohorts controlled by fanatic mullahs that lead our terrorist and militant organizations.

    This game was started from Britisher to Change the original teaching of Islam. Hqbajwa I know u don't believe that Miza Ghulam was superior than Hazarat Muhammad (PBUH) but his claims lies in his books. It also mean u have rejected his claims. which mean u indirectly rejected Mirza Ghulam. This is how the game works to change the faith of Muslims as U don't know what is written in his book, U already admitted it.

    Claim to being Superior to Muhammad(SAW)

    "And Allah sent down upon me the bounty of the holy Prophet and made it perfect; and he drew towards me the kindness and generosity of the merciful Prophet, so that I became one with him. Thus, he who joins my group, joins the group of the companions (Sahaba) of my Leader, the best of messengers. It is not hidden from those who have the ability to think that this is what the words "Akhareen Menhom" (others of them) mean. The person who makes a difference between me and the Mustafa has neither seen me nor recognized me."

    (Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 258-259; Khutba-e-Ilhamiah, P. 171)

    "One who denies that the mission of the Prophet(SAW) is related to the 6th thousand (13th century) as it was related to 5th thousand (6th century), denies the truth and the text of the Quran and is among the zalemeen (gone astray). The truth is that the spiritual power of the holy Prophet(SAW) at the end of the 6th thousand (13th century in Mirza Ghulam), i.e. these days, is much stronger, more complete and stronger than in those early years. Nay, it is like the fourteenth (moonlit) night (full moon)."

    (Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 16, P. 271-272; Khutbah-e-Ilhamiah, P. 181)

    Claim to Having Received Quran and New Revelations

    "The basis for our claims is not Hadith but Quran and that Wahi (revelation) which comes to me. Yes, in support we also present those Hadith which are according to Quran and do not contradict my Wahi. Rest of the Hadith, I throw them away like a waste paper."

    (Nuzool-e-Maseeh, Roohany Khazaen, Vol.19, P.140)

    Claim to having a New Shariah

    "On top of it you must realize what Shariat (religious law) really is. Simply it orders proper conduct and forbids indecency. One who lays down certain commands and prohibitions (i.e. Amr bil Maroof and Nahi an-ilMunkar) is an ordinate of Shariat and I am the ordinate of Shariat, because my revelations contain both commandments (awamir) and prohibitions (Nawahi). It is wrong that Shariat should decree totally new orders as there is much teaching in the Quran which is also found in the Torah. That explains why, in the Quran, there is much reference to it in the following verse: 'This has been revealed in the former books - those of Moses and Ibrahim.'"

    (Arbain, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 17, P. 435-436; Arbain, Vol. 4, P. 6)

    "My teachings contain orders as well as prohibitions and renovations of important injunctions of the Shariat. For this reason, God has named my teachings and the revelations (Wahi) that comes to me as "Falak" (Boat).... Thus see, God has declared my revelations, my teachings and my allegiance to be Noah's Ark and as the basis of salvation for all human beings. Let him who has eyes see and him who has ears hear."

    (Arbain, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 17, P. 435; Arbain, Vol. 4, Margin of P. 6)

    "As the result of the advent of the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani), a difference has cropped up (in the meaning of Kalima). Before the appearance of the mission of the Promised Messiah, the words "Muhammad Rasurrollah" (Muhammad, the Prophet of Allah) included in their meaning only such messengers as had preceded him. But, after the mission of the Promised Messiah, one more messenger has entered into the meaning of "Muhammad Rasurrollah" (Muhammad, the Prophet of Allah).

    Therefore, on account of the incarnation of the Promised Messiah, the Kalimah "La Ilaha Ellallah, Muhammad Rasurrollah" does not become abolished; it rather shines more brightly. In short, the same Kalimah is effective even now for embracing Islam, with the only difference that the incarnation of the Promised Messiah (Mirza Qadiani) has added one more Messenger to the meaning of "Muhammad Rasurrollah" (Muhammad, the Prophet of Allah)."

    (Kalimat-ul-Fasl, P. 158, by Mirza Basheer Ahmad Qadiani)

    "Moreover, even if we accept by supposing the impossible that the sacred name of the merciful Prophet has been included in the Kalimah because he is the last of the prophets, even then no difficulty arises and we do not need a new Kalimah because the Promised Messiah is not a separate entity from the Merciful Prophet as he (Mirza Ghulam) himself has said:'

    • My Entity has become his entity

    • He who makes a distinction between me and Mustafa has not recognized me nor has seen me.'

    And the reason for this is that Allah Almighty has promised that He would reincarnate the last of the Prophets (Khatam-un-Nabieen) to this world once more as it is evident from the verse "Akhareen Menhom" (... others of them). Thus, the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam) is himself Muhammad, the Prophet of Allah, who had come to the world again to spread Islam. We do not, therefore, need any new Kalimah. A new Kalimah would have been necessary, if some other person had been reincarnated instead of Muhammad, the Messenger (Rasul) of Allah. So contemplate!"

    (Kalimat-ul-Fasl, P. 158; Review of Religions, March-April, 1915)

    Religion of Muhammad(SAW) Declared Dead and Satanic

    "We believe that a religion in which the chain of prophethood stands severed (as in Islam of Muhammad) is dead. We call the religions of Jews, the Christians and the Hindus dead only because now there are no messengers in them. If this were the position in Islam, we would be no more than mere story-tellers. Why do we regard it superior to other religions? It must have some distinctive features."

    (Malfoozat-e-Mirza, Vol. 10, P. 127; Rabwa)



  • Hqbajwa All these Are images of Book of Mirza Ghulam with reference, This show how the original faith of Islam is tried to changed by the Mirza Ghulam

    We hope the facts do speak for themselves, Mirza Ghulam of Qadian forged a lie against Allah by claiming to be a Prophet of God. The use of appealing Islamic teachings, symbols, and terminology by the Qadiani leadership is a weak and hypocritical attempt on their part to divert gullible or uninformed individuals from the Light of Allah(SWT) and the religion of Muhammad(SAW). The doctrine and beliefs of the followers of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani are attacks on the very prophethood of hazrat Muhammad(SAW) and the true Message of Islam.

    They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them; but if they turn back (to their evil ways), Allah will punish them with a grievous penalty in this life and in the Hereafter: They shall have none on earth to protect or help them.

    (The Holy Quran, Al-Tawba, 9:74)



  • "SS...nice work..keep it up man...just a thought...this man..whom you are calling a liar and his followers bla bla bla...have been in action for the last 100 years...and are growing everyday...to this extent that now we have to attack thr mosques to stop thr progress...do you really think tht if you and i do blasphemy and go against the will of Allah SWT and against our holy prophet...can we survive a day..do you think Allah SWT let ppl like them grow..and grow...you dnt go with me on this...but check history..whneva we have done wrong with them...sumthing wrong had happened with us..2005 earthquake..we killed them in thr mosque in fajr prayers...and thn the lahore incident...anyways......both of us cant be right...so i pray...if we are right..let them down...and if not..O Allah SWT give us the wisdom to accept whds right with an open heart..Ameen..!

    n please...i was active on this forum 6 7 months ago...whn sumone else like you was posting these images frm a fake website..and upon checking it was revealed tht it was a fake website created by sumone like me and you to take our frustration out..!!!



  • SS and Friends

    SS plethora given here above is referred---- which boils down to this that whether:

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is an Imposter, an Impersonator or he is the true Promised Messiah who was prophesised by the Holy Prophet (saw)

    The literal meanings of Impersonator are; the one who resembles other, a look alike, a mimic but when we say Imposter that means he is false claimant, a fraud and a liar.

    While discussing Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (as); his case somehow coincides with Prophet Jesus (as);Both were labelled by the people with their vested interests as liars; so in this context it will be more appropriate that we use the word 'imposter'.

    But who will decide that whether Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is an ‘imposter’ or a true Promised Messiah? You or me?

    The dilemma may be that none of us will agree to the claim presented by other side.

    Then; what could be the option left with us?

    I think; we better look in the Quran e karim for our guidance that what does Quran says in this regard.

    I find that there are two salient sets of verses which may guide us through--->

    1. First and foremost would be that whether we should bother about other people’s religion or their beliefs that whether they are guided one or not? Are they on right path? Do we have the prerogative to question other people and in case of Pakistanis; to label them whether they are Muslims or not?

    We know for sure that for any humble citizen of Pakistan; religion may not be the criteria of one’s nationality. Islam is a peace loving religion which teaches that ‘there is no compulsion in religion ’[2;256] and there should not occur any clash in understanding one another as ----‘For me is my work and for you is your work. You are not responsible for what I do and I am not responsible for what you do.[10:41].

    Anyhow anyone who claims to be a Muslim; God even did not give this right even to Holy prophet (saw) to call someone-Non-Muslim.

    1. On other hand about any False claimant or anyone who even forges some lies in respect of Allah or his divine communion with Allah; Allah Jala Shanahou very explicitly says: [Al-Haqqah-69:43--45] It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. ()“And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,() We would surely have seized him by the right hand”,() And then surely We would have severed his life-artery”.

    I hope we all believe in Living God, the One who can take care of all the affairs of his domain. So if at all Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is even imposter. God Almighty will duly take care of this man. We will not be asked by God; neither we are responsible of it.

    But


    if Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (as)is right and True; then I hope we are not repeating the same folly which was done in the past by our national assembly or what the old Israelite (Jews) Ulemas did about their prophet Jesus (as).

    They got passed a verdict of imposter and sent Jesus to the cross to die a humiliating death....they kept on boasting for long six hundred years that what a great job they have done...! But Quran later reveals us some different story... that for their act of despicable treatment given to their own reformer; God almighty condemned them.

    Quran tells us that they could earn nothing but the wrath of God and ever since they stand as defunct and rejected.

    For all above, we do need one thing; a deep soul searching? And see that----we are not trekking the same route which Israelites (Jews) they adopted and are failing in recognising our Promised Messiah, like old Jesus among us?

    As I said; it requires a deep soul searching and not the cherry picking of some out of context references from certain books to satisfy one’s own haughtiness or ego that we may not be bestowed with the necessary knowledge to assimilate the true wisdom lying there---.

    **Itnee Na barha; pakee a dammaan

    Apni kalla dekh; apni Kabba dekh

    With best of Regards

    **(Please forgive me if this Urdu couplet is not correct.)

    Please do correct it; if you have read the correct one.



  • @Jay Pak

    Please if u don't mind. Please tell me are u Qadiani?

    the last 100 years...and are growing everyday.

    Look jaypk that's not good logical argument. See Christian today are more than muslim. It doesn't mean that Christianity is good religion.

    andn please...i was active on this forum 6 7 months ago...whn sumone else like you was posting these images frm a fake website..and upon checking it was revealed tht it was a fake website created by sumone like me and you to take our frustration out..!!!

    Give me Valid proof that the above images are not from Qadian's Books. Also show the correct pages. Also show me from what site i get these images.

    =========================================

    Aay Khokhar

    Do u believe that the above claims of Mirza Ghulam are true



  • SS and Friends

    It was very late Last night that I was able to put up the earlier post but it seems that it needs some retouching. SS has also come up with his fresh inquiry.

    So, I have tried to freshen it up. You may kindly go through it.

    The big Question is, Whether:

    Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is an Imposter, an Impersonator or he is the true Promised Messiah who was prophesised by the Holy Prophet (saw)?

    The literal meanings of Impersonator are; the one who resembles other, a look alike, a mimic but when we say Imposter that means he is false claimant, a fraud and a liar.

    While discussing Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (as); his case somehow coincides with Prophet Jesus (as); both were labelled by the people with their vested interests as liars; so in this context it will be more appropriate that we use the word 'imposter'.

    But who will decide that whether Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is an ‘imposter’ or he is a true Promised Messiah? You or me?

    The dilemma would be that none of us will agree to the claim presented by other side.

    Then; what could be the option left with us?

    I think; we better look in the Quran e karim for our guidance that what does Quran says in this regard.

    I find that there are two salient sets of verses which may guide us through--->

    1. First and foremost would be that whether we should bother about other people’s religion or their beliefs or not. Are they on right path? What is our prerogative to question these people and in case we being Pakistani Muslims; can we ‘label’ them whether they are Muslims or not?

    Islam is a peace loving religion which teaches that ‘there is no compulsion in religion ’[2;256] and there should not occur any clash in understanding one another as ----Quran says: ‘For me is my work and for you is your work. You are not responsible for what I do and I am not responsible for what you do.[10:41].

    Anyhow who so ever claims to be a Muslim; we better know that God Almighty did not give this right even to Holy prophet (saw) to call someone-Non-Muslim.

    1. On other hand about any False claimant or anyone who even forges some lies in respect of Allah or his divine communion with Allah; Allah Jala Shanahou very explicitly says: [Al-Haqqah-69:43--45] It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds. ()“And if he had forged and attributed any sayings to Us,() We would surely have seized him by the right hand”,() And then surely We would have severed his life-artery”.

    I hope we all believe in Living God, the One who can take care of all the affairs of his domain. So if at all Mirza Ghulam Ahmed is even imposter. Why you or me are bothered? God Almighty will duly take care of this man. We will not be asked by God; neither it is our responsibility to guide someone; Allah says He guides the people to who so ever He wills.

    But


    if Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (as)is right and True; then probably we are up for a big jump and I hope we are not repeating the same folly which was done in the past by the old Israelite (Jews) Ulemas about their prophet Jesus (as).

    They declared Jesus an imposter and got passed a verdict by Roman Rulers to send Jesus to the cross to die a humiliating death....Jesus was put on Cross and they kept on boasting for long six hundred years that what a great job they have done...! But Quran later reveals us some different story... that for their act of despicable treatment given to their own reformer; Jesus--- God almighty condemned them.

    They could earn nothing but the wrath of God and ever since they stand as defunct and rejected.

    I believe; we do need one thing; a deep soul searching. And see that----are we not trekking the same route which Israelites (Jews) they adopted and we are failing in recognising our Promised Messiah (as) who was present among us?

    As I said; it requires a deep soul searching and not the cherry picking of some out of context references from certain books to satisfy one’s own haughtiness or ego. Mocking and jeering is one thing but only if we can reflect that probably, we may not be bestowed with that a necessary knowledge to assimilate the true wisdom lying there---in the books of promised Messiah (as).

    **Itnee Na barha; apni pakee a dammaan

    Apni kalla dekh; apni Kabba dekh


    Meray Wattan Peh uteray hoay Andheroun ko

    Jo Tum Kaho: Mujhey Qahar e Khuda sa lagta hey

    With best of Regards

    **(Please forgive me if this Urdu couplet is not correct.)

    Please do correct it; if you have read the correct one.



  • @aay khokhar and @SS

    It is said that Ghulam Ahmed use abusive language extensively in his books. I have seen some images just like SS posted above which shows his abusive language. Is it true?

    A person with such an abusive language does not even deserve that respect that you give him