A Lost Opportunity ?



  • Renaissance for Muslims

    In 1492 the Muslim Moors were defeated at Granada by the Catholic army of Isabelle of Spain. When this happened and even before that during the Muslim rule in Spain, modern scientific knowledge had been transmitted to the European continent from the Muslim scholars. This was the accumulated knowledge in Physics, Chemistry, Logic, philosophy etc of those that came before the Muslims such as the Greeks and others as well as the advanced knowledge created by the Muslim thinkers and scientists such as Jabir Bin Hayan and others.

    The obvious question arises that if the Muslims were that advanced why they went into dark ages after the defeat in Granada , Spain.

    The answer lies in the following statement.

    A systematic pre-meditated plan was put in place by the Muslim kings with active help of the Islamic Clergy to strangulate and stifle reason and creative thought.

    The purpose was to maintain and secure the political hegemony of various Arab dynasties and groups in power.

    And how did they do it ?

    Well , with the active cooperation of the Islamic Clergy and the Arab rulers legitimized their edicts by judicious and selective use of Hadith.

    The specific aim was to control and contain REASON by issuing edicts backed by the Hadith to cover every minute aspect of human life and to prevent anyone from indulging in independent thought process.

    Since in every Muslim’s life everything had to be according to the directives of the Quran and Hadith- and Quran was unchangeable-( could not be altered).

    A whole lot of people came forward with various Hadith since being associated with a Hadith was a great honor and everyone wanted such honor to become part of the Elite and aristocracy.

    The Ummayad and Abassid kings felt that this was the best way to control the population and address the issue of their illegitimacy. So the great potential of a new civilization to explore new horizons was stunted.

    If you have any doubts about this theory – just look at the Muslim countries of today. In spite of many of them having been under the colonial rule/ political influencing of Western European countries- the same stifling atmosphere of those by gone days remains. The role of the Islamic Clergy today as an anti-intellectual and anti-progressive political force persists. A substantial part of the Muslim populations are being held intellectual and spiritual hostage by these political forces.

    And their main weapon is to disallow reason and promote dogma.



  • Hadith: The ultimate WMD (?)

    (One previous discussion about Hadith starting here)



  • Very good post nota and shimatoree. Be prepared for the onslaught of labeling.



  • interesting theory but it fails to answer how muslims were able to reach at advanced level at first place under islamic jurisprudence?

    to use word clergy is again misleading and shows the author is relying on orientalist works -without citation-



  • ST quote "The role of the Islamic Clergy today as an anti-intellectual and anti-progressive political force persists."

    Who are the so called intellectuals and progressives? who defines them and what is their datum? Where are they progressing towards? What is their ultimate goal?

    This shows the apologetic slavish attitude of secular "educated" for which Allama Iqbal said:

    "If Pharoah knew about the disastrous consequences of secular education, he would rather had given the new borns secular education rather than killing them."

    The entire vocubalory of these secular educated ones ranging from "intellectual" to "progressive" is alien to Islamic concept of civilization. Their thinking and modus operandi is blindly aping the decadent West. In West "progressive" is one who attains materialistic exellence but in Islamic society the "progressive" is one who attains higher morals and piety for ultimate salvation inthie world and hereafter.

    Western vs Islamic society

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0vB7oidr_U



  • @AR

    "If Pharoah knew about the disastrous consequences of secular education, he would rather had given the new borns secular education rather than killing them."

    The entire vocubalory of these secular educated ones ranging from "intellectual" to "progressive" is alien to Islamic concept of civilization. Their thinking and modus operandi is blindly aping the decadent West. In West "progressive" is one who attains materialistic exellence but in Islamic society the "progressive" is one who attains higher morals and piety for ultimate salvation inthie world and hereafter."

    Thanks! Just one thing (or two) I would like to point out: Should we be talking "In West.."? The properties you attribute to them are very much a part of us today and the "aping" is complete (and not just among our "intellectual" to "progressive"). So when we talk of such things, should we be separating the two?

    @saqib55

    "Be prepared for the onslaught of labeling"

    I have had the honor many a times and from both sides ;-)



  • Nota, It is same. No need to separate. Like it or not, I would say we are unfortunately embedded in the Western civilization lock, stock and barrel at present except perhaps some fiercely independant pockets here and there.



  • We have even manged to copy the worst of the West and leave any of the redeeming qualities alone.



  • again... going in abstract... what are redeeming qualities??



  • @nota

    Bukhari is most authentic book after Quran. The great man mohammad ismail bukhari was honest in collecting the Hadith.

    A true believe must accept the authentic saying of Holy Prophet.

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/why-islam-is-complicated#post-175666



  • @SS

    "A true believe must accept the authentic saying of Holy Prophet."

    Of course :)

    Bukhari is most authentic book after Quran.

    Thanks for proving my point.

    The great man mohammad ismail bukhari was honest in collecting the Hadith.

    Here I am reminded: "Road to hell is paved with good intentions." ;-)



  • Here I am reminded: "Road to hell is paved with good intentions." ;-)

    Nota u disgrace the work of a great muslim scholar. Do u think.

    Road to heaven is paved with bad intentions



  • nota, so glad you're here as well. Your cool head much needed. May I quote you times twice:

    One: "The Quran dictated by the Prophet as His message is the only source of Islam."

    Two: "Hadith: The ultimate WMD (?)"

    Two perfect gems which describe the core of my own attitude towards the question.

    S.S. Only by adopting this particular attitude do we come closer to what you have always called the Khilafa and I the coming Ummah. Only by reflecting carefully over what poor shimatoree has been trying hard to draw our attention to will we Muslims revive and once again become the leaders of the world.



  • MG-

    With friends like you and nota, and other objective thinkers

    • I am not POOR at all .

    I am filthy rich-



  • Look Man Mirza Galib

    We may have clash of thougts. But show some respect to work of Great Scholar Imam Bhukari. By his work today so many muslim are benefited. Imam Bukhari was a great man and honest follower of Rasool. That is only problem with nota. Who are We are not equal to the DIRT of IMAM BUKHARI and ALL THE SAHABAS (may Allah please on them All)

    Imam bukhari has done a great service:-



  • The technique to stifle and strangulate thought by those with fanatical and ossified closed minds is unchanged today on this web site in it's various threads.

    The self proclaimed legitimacy -concocted-( dishonestly) by a distortion of religion specifically for the purpose of stopping reason and restricting debate- is the technique used once the Zaradris of old-( after the death of Ali (and Hassan) took over.

    They knew they were illegitimate and there were only two ways they could control the Muslims so that they could continue their enrichment through stealing .

    Their initial step was to buy and control the Qadis-( judiciary)-

    Then they had to stop REASON and they did that by making it appear that to reason was to be against God and his Prophet.

    They could not have done that without the active cooperation of the so-called religious establishment.

    And second they could only do that by enriching those that were willing to be bought.

    And then of course they used death. torture and military force against anyone who did not toe the line.

    Creative people still carried on but the long term effect of the strangulation was that

    gradually the Muslims ended up in the dark ages where we still appear to be with the same powers trying to control independent thought process and critical thinking except for what they consider HALAL and what they approve.

    Today- our young people who go and live in the West for sometime and in spite of other impediments of race, colour etc- they shine and excel in all intellectual fields and rise to the highest levels of achievement- WHY ?

    Because in their fields their thought process is not strangulated and they are allowed- no encouraged to develop their creativity.

    The only good thing now is that the GENIE is out of the bag and after just about 1400 years we have found out who the STRANGULATORS are and what techniques they use.



  • i see many people here are influenced by ghulam ahmed pervez



  • @saad

    "i see many people here are influenced by ghulam ahmed pervez"

    Ha, Ha!

    The first time I heard the name was when, of all the people, my father labeled me a "Pervezi" about six or seven years ago. I didn't have a clue what he meant and had to ask someone what Pervezi meant (I didn't even know it was a particular person's name). I never followed up on it and to this day I don't know much about him except that he is supposed to have written a book(s?) rejecting hadith (I don't even know if that is a fact -- never really was interested enough to check).

    So to say that I am "influenced by ghulam ahmed pervez" is certainly not true. ;-)

    @shimatoree

    "I am filthy rich"

    Ditto! :)



  • nota-

    I have another theory.

    George Orwell and Aldous Huxley read a secret manuscript from Muawiyah's time on how to control the minds and bodies of the people .

    Then George Orwell wrote 1984 and Aldous Huxley wrote his Brave new world.

    And we have been living in this Brave Old World for 1400 years!



  • "Then George Orwell wrote 1984 and Aldous Huxley wrote his Brave new world."

    So thats where he is getting his information from. Anyway, nothing else was expected from a attention seeking wh0re...