The Collection of Quran.
The Quran is the warrant of Mohammad’s prophethood.
It is also the authoritative scripture of the Muslims.
As yet till after the Prophet’s death it had not been collected and stored in one place.
It was scattered amongst his companions and the scribes.
Many of the problems which were to later bother the theologians if the collection and editing had been done during the Prophet’ life and under his supervision.
The Suras would have been placed in a chronological order.
It was Hazrat Umar who insisted to Hazrat Abu Bakr that the Quran be collected an edited.( Zayd bin Thabet).
Many years passed before was finally accomplished
Under a committee appointed by Hazrat .Uthman.
As everyone knows the Quran is not in chronological sequence of the revelations. Instead the Suras were placed in order of decreasing length.
At the time Hazrat Ali and Abdullah b. Masud did have in his possession texts but they were not consulted.
Should one ask why ?
don't be afraid shimatoree, go ahead and assert your point or conclusion, or you just want us to comment on your copied points :)
Why should anyone be interested in this 'why' question ? Why bother with it ?
What benefit is it to us to ask this question ?
This is an era of deviant sects with their deviant theories and distorted history. However, Allah is the protector of his faith. A lot of fitnas arose in the Islamic history but Allah suppressed all of them by the passage of time.
Shaf shaf makawa, shaftaloo ye ka :-). speak your mind out, dont affraid if you are sincire in knowing about the answers you will get it. I dont know why but i feel like you know the answer but you just want to intiate a new discussion, isnt it?
I do not know the answer since I do not claim to know " everything" about Islam as some " Mullayan" here seem to claim they do.
I do have a theory which I will put forth at the right time once the discussion gets going -
- if it gets going !.
I have stong objection to your two words.
1. Edited (Nobody has authority to Edit Holy Quaran)
2. As everyone knows the Quran is not in chronological sequence of the revelations. Instead the Suras were placed in order of decreasing length.
It shows your lack of knowledge.
A. Surah Kausar is shortest Surah but it is not in end.
B. Holy Prophet Sallay Allah Alaih Wasalm always directed Katibeen Wahi to place the revealed portion of Holy Quran at a specific position. Various parts of various Surah were revealed at different times but compiled in single Surah according to instructions.
C. Allah Himself has taken responsibilit of safeguard of Holy Quran and nobody can change its words, change its sequence and even attempt to change its actual meaning.
(NAHAN U NAZAL LA ZIKR, LAHO LAHA HAFIZOON (WE HAVE REVEALED THIS HOLY SCRIPTURE AND WE WILL SAFEGUARD IT.)
What you are doing is not an intellectual discourse it is clear and planned action on your part to create doubts among the minds of young people.
I would appeal admin to take notice of it and immediately stop him from doing this.
Please try to understand it is not intellectual discussion he has malicious agenda against our Din.
i am waiting for nota & dildar to show their position on this thread!
mr. toree is very cautious and not saying anything, but copying things around... he sure has malicious agenda no doubt in my mind :)
PS: got a plane to catch, will get back soon inshallah
Wake up. This is 21st century. We study history.
“Edited (Nobody has authority to Edit Holy Quaran)”
Face the facts. It was edited.
“ quote “
“It shows your lack of knowledge.”
Merely your opinion.
“Holy Prophet Sallay Allah Alaih Wasalm always directed Katibeen Wahi to place the revealed portion of Holy Quran at a specific position. Various parts of various Surah were revealed at different times but compiled in single Surah according to instructions.”
The fact is that no compilation of the Quran was done till after the death of the Prophet and that too at the insistence of Umar.-( Historical fact). The very fact that it took till Uthman became Caliph shows that they had great difficulty in tracking down all the Suras and placing them in a certain order that you have today.
Your squeeling indicates that you like some others are unwilling to look at history but live in the La La land of make believe.
The order is fixed! There are many narrations that Gabriel AS used to recite the whole Quran, whatever had been revealed, to the Prophet SAW every year. There are many many narrations about the placement of particular surahs e.g. Al-Mulk in juzz 29. The Quran had been memorized in the same order by the people, therefore during tadween there was never a debate about it's order at the times of Abu Bakr or Uthman RAs, because all huffazz had known it. Reported in Musnad Ahmad bin Hanbal that The Prophet SAW once told his Companions after he had received a certain revelation that the arch-angel Gabriel AS had specified for him the particular order of verses.
Allah Himself asserts the gathering and collecting task: It is We who will collect it (Jama’ahu) into Quran [75:17]
This is an open and shut issue and you are making a mistake or a false assumption in something you are trying to achieve.
The compilation was done in the life of Prophet SAAW and it was Hifz to many muslims as Arabs were very proud of their good memory.
It was just brought in book shape in the time of Hazrat Abu on the advice of Hazrat Umar after martyre of many Huffaz in a battle fought against Mussialma Kazzab.
Traditions about the Collection of the Qur'an:
This tradition has been narrated by Zayd b. Tha:bit. He said: Abu Bakr sent for me when the Muslims were slain in the battle of Yamama. [When I entered, I found] 'Umar b. al-Khaattab with him. Abu Bakr said, "'Umar came to me and said, 'Casualties were heavy among Qur'an reciters during the battle of Yamama, and I am afraid that heavier casualties might take place among the reciters in other battles, whereby much of the Qur'an would be lost. I am of the opinion that you should order the collection of the Qur'an [in book form]."' I asked 'Umar, "How dare I do something the Messenger of God did not do?" 'Umar replied, "This, by God, is a good thing [to do]." 'Umar kept urging me until God opened my chest for that and I came to view the matter as he did. Zayd said that Abu Bakr said [to him]: "You are a wise young man and we trust you. You used to record the revelation for the Messenger of God. So go and find [all the fragments of] the Qur'an and put them together."
Just correct your historical facts.
I am sure the prupose of all your threads is not looking into history and you have certain specific designs.
I agree with B. Ossama.
quote from your comment
" "How dare I do something the Messenger of God did not do?" I rest my case
At one place you defend and support the ijtehad and ijma of Sahaba -e-Kiram and at other you go against it to support your point. Very straqnge logic.
I give up. I am nobody to discuss at length such delicate topics. I may loose my eeman if say somethin in-correct.
But I say you the same:
If you are really believer then, please be careful dont discuss such delicate topics.
If you are not, as only Allah know about your real intents then you should wait for your destiny. Destiny of those who committed similar crimes in past. Crimes of misleading beleivers.
I am just a seeker of truth no more. I want to know what happened
God knows who I am and of my sincerity.
And after all that is the only thing important to me and my destiny
yes, that is the fact as stated by bo & pakistani, orientalists in the past have tried very hard to raise doubt on Qur'an but here they have all failed...
Ok Shima Toree,
If you are so interested in history, history is also my favourite subject. I am suggesting few topics, let us discuss on them if you like. They are quite interesting and can be termed as turning points in our history.
1. Role of Abdullah bin Zubair during Bannu Ummayah Era
2. Facts about Karbala
3. Conquerors of Islam in the era of Walid bin Abdul Malik and their destiny.
4. Jafar the Wazir and his fate in ethe era of Haroon ur Rasheed.
5. Muhammad Shah Saljuki and Nizamul Mulk Toosi
6. Hassan bin Sabbah and his Suicide Killers (Fidaees)
7. Fall of Abbasids in 1258 and birth of Usman in same year.
8. Jang-e-Angoora between two great conquerors of Islam. Bayazid Yaldaram and Amir Taimur turned the tide of history.
9. Crusade and their relationship with Europe Renais.
Few topics related to great nation you belong the Pathans.
10. Ahmed Shah Abdali and his Ihsan on Sub-Continent
11. Syed Ahmed Shaheed and role of Pathan tribal leaders
These all topics are related to Military aspect of our history.
Now few about Science and Culture.
1. Great inventions and discoveries of Muslims scientists and their adaption by Europeans.
2. Muslims of Andulusia opened the door of knowledge to Europeans.
3. Role of Muslim Salors in discovering Americas.
4. First great Navy of Turks under Barbarosa was a starting point for European Naval expeditions.
5. Ummar Khayam, Saadi and Roomi.
6. Musaddas-e-Haali and Shikwa and their similarities.
These topics I have just written fil badih so they may miss many important topics.
I think you may not like my this post but it is my sincere effort to divert your intellectual pursuits towards lesser delicate issues.
You have put a long list. But I do believe you are sincere and therefore the least I can do is reply to each item. Give me a few minutes and I shall be back.
Thanks for acknowledging my sincerity. Any of these topics can be discussed in separate thread. I am specially interested in Hassan bin Sabbah as it is related to our current Suicide bombing problem.