Kashmir Issue - Historical Perspective & Future
Kashmir is the ever burning issue between two nuclear rivals. My understanding of the issue is that it was one of the many princely states of British India. At the time of partition it was decided that princely states will join either India or Pakistan and the ruler will make the decision based on wishes of the people.
<div>Jammu & Kashmir was muslim majority state ruled by Hindu ruler Mah Raja Hari Singh. He decided in favor of India against the wishes of it's people. People stood against that decision and that triggered first war between India and Pakistan. UN intervened and some sort of Line of Control was accepted by both sides. That resulted in Kashmir's partition one controlled by India and other by Pakistan. In Pakistan we refer Indian controlled as Indian occupied Kashmir and in India they refer Pakistan side as Pakistan occupied Kashmir.</div>
<div>It was decided that plebiscite will be held once things are settled. </div>
<div>After peace was restored thanks to UN intervention India back tracked from that promise that was also guaranteed under some UN resolutions. Instead India got 'accession with India' resolutions from 1st three state legislative assemblies and suggested that as an alternative to plebiscite. </div>
<div>Pakistan never accepted those resolutions as alternative to plebiscite. After east Pakistan debacle under Shimla agreement Pakistan and India agreed to solve their issues bilaterally including Kashmir. India argued since then that UN resolutions were ineffective but Pakistan said they are not. </div>
<div>In late 80's after Khalistan movement died Kashmir movement picked up and has maintained the momentum in some form and shape. At times it was controlled by nationalists like JKLF and at times by Islamic groups lead by people like Ali Gillani. India was able to hold couple of successful elections but they never had complete control on valley. Over seven hundred thousand Indian troops are in J&K these days.</div>
<div>As a Kashmiri I 'd like both India and Pakistan to step back. I am not in favor of independent Kashmir or Jihadis using Kashmir as the base for their vague global agenda. I 'd like to see Kashmir divided like Punjab and Bengal. </div>
<div>We all know after 60 years there is not much difference between regions controlled by India or Pakistan. South Asia is among the poorest on globe after Africa. Now that both countries have nuclear capabilities they can't have active wars like they had in the past. At best there will be proxy wars. We the Kashmiries will be paying heaviest price for these wars. On both sides of the borders we will keep on increasing defense spending instead of spending on social infrastructure.</div>
<div>Please correct me where I am wrong (I am sure I may have misquoted few historical facts and I apologize for that in advance) and more importantly suggest realistic solutions that are acceptable to both sides. Independent Kashmir was never an option and in my view should never be one as that will open a Pandora box that will not stop at Kashmir. When Europe is establishing European Union we should not be carving smaller states in South Asia, just a thought. </div>
As a Kashmiri I 'd like both India and Pakistan to step back. I am not in favor of independent Kashmir or Jihadis using Kashmir as the base for their vague global agenda.
How ironic that you like to refer yourself as a so called Kashmiri and oppose the genuine freedom movement? BTW, any freedom movement devoid of God Almighty and ultimate implementation of Shariah is doomed to failure. There is no freedom movement in Islam for hukumat that will make you proud as a Kashmiri. Are you a Pakistani or Indian? At this point there is no such thing as a Kashmiri. So stop this nationalistic mantra and be what you are.If you are not in favor of Mujahideen fighting the taghoot means clearly that you are in favor of Zionist global agenda. You are either with us or them? Right? No wonder Israeli and Indians are hand in hand in suppressing the revolt in the valley.
Covert and open training of Indian military thugs by Israeli agents has been going for for decades. Come back to your senses and support the Mujahideen fighting the 3rd largest army in the world. If you don't want to support, just keep quite and stay away from the field of Jihad and concentrate on materialistic pursuits.
<div>I am from Pakistan precisely AJK. I do not want Kashmir to be used as base camp for Jihadis. You may have seen jihad in print and electronic media I have lost my cousins and friends in that. At the same time I do not support any nationalistic organization like JKLF. I want peace in Srinagar, Baramulla, Muzafrabad, Rawalakot as others enjoy in Lahore and Delhi. I do not want jihadis from all over to ruin our land. I am sure my feelings are not any different from lay man in tribal area. No one likes to see gun battles in his backyard for vague political agenda of outsiders. Feel free to label me what ever you want but leave my land. Why don't you fulfill your global ambitions in your backyard? How much Islam you have implemented in Pakistan?</div>
<div>I requested a peaceful way out on this thread not haphazard labels. </div>
I beg to diifer with your concept of nationalism. Please do not call that its your land. It is all Divine land. No one asked your parents where you want to be born. it was certainly not your choice.
When Israeli foreigners can go to Valley to train Indian thugs to crush the aspirations of the sons of the soil what is wrong with Brothers going to the help of brothers? It is not a matter of choice but it is mandatory to help.
Peace as you like it will be ultimately restored to that land but before that you have to make immense sacrifices or get ready for peace offered by occupiers. Remember it was the jihadis from the desert who gave the light to the valley centuries back and it is the same jihadis that will insha'Allah reinvigurate that extinguished flame of eternnal salvation. Someones terrorists aka jihadis are someones freedom fighters.
mann... Kashmiris have such beautiful land, such beautiful people, such beautiful culture. If Kashmir joins Pakistan, its tourism would be wasted due to Pakistan's label of terrorism.If Kashmir joins India, that would be unfortunate due to Indian army's plunder of its people India does not deserve it. Kashmir would look the best independant, but you say how can it exist independantly with two nuclear powers on each side?Well yes it can, if Nepal can, if Srilanka can, why cant Kashmir exist in the middle happily beside nuclear powers?
Abur Rahman is calling on Kashmiris to support the mujahideen but there will be no use, just more violence, more deaths.... the politicians are playing a game with lives of ordinary people.
Wishes are not fishes !
Real Politik will prevail.
The desire to go back to peace and quiet is simply just that- A desire and has no value in the world of Real Politik.
And that is that Indian army will NOT leave till 100,000 of them are sent back in coffins. If the Kashmiris are serious about being free- then they better get going as they are already 64 years too late.
No govt in Pakistan can survive by "giving up" on Kashmir.
So those are the facts. Make what you can of it.
Okay, if Kashmir gets "free" from India, will it join Pakistan or become independant? What do Kashmiris want themselves? they want freedom but there has to be a plan?
there has to be a way to end this brutality from India's human rights violations...
In one sentence you say its all Divine land and in other sons of soil. Make up your mind dude you can't bend it both ways. In what part of the world this all divine land theory is followed. Don't you need visas to go to anywhere in the middle east. Jihadis are establishing these game rules for their convenience but nobody buys them. I don't need a 'brother' from Multan or Mikran or Waziristan to fight for my freedom. Thanks but no thanks. Leave us alone.
As far as Indian Army's atrocities are concerned they are not any different from Pakistan's Army. That's what troops do when they are called to curb insurgencies. What are Pakistani troops doing in Waziristan and Swat? What they did in east Pakistan. It's not any different than what Indians did in Khalistan and are now doing in Kashmir. And frankly I don't blame either Army. That's how insurgencies are handled.
First you stir unrest and then use footage from crack downs to stir more unrest. I want my land to come out of this vicious circle. Divided Kashmir 'd be perfectly fine with me as long as both sides India and Pakistan agree on it.
You didn't suggest any solution. You painted status quo and predicted more of the same. Both India and Pakistan need to step back, detach themselves emotionally from Kashmir and then and only then peaceful mutually acceptable solution can be hoped.
Kashmiris do not have beautiful people or land. It's mostly mountainous terrain like any other in subcontinent and people are also like any other group living in hills of Swat or Shimla. If anyone had any misconception that should be gone by now. Kashmir can not turn around economies of either India or Pakistan. So let's be realistic and try not to give any special attention to this unfortunate land and it's people than it deserves. Unfortunately all this special attention has brought nothing but miseries to the residents of Kashmir.
Can you imagine how your kids will go to school and play outside when your neighborhood is crowded by Fauji Jawans and insurgents. The endless gun battles and blasts have ruined our land, our way of life, peace of mind and the worst part is there is no end insight.
When Shirazis came from Shiraz to Kashmir to become Kashmiris what kind of visas and passport did their ancestors carried?
There was freedom of movement in the entire Muslim world until the man made boundaries were demarcated by Kuffar. This led to universal tranfer of ideas and propelled the rennaisance movement in Europe. When Shirazis, Bukharis, Ghaznavis, Madanis, Makkis, Bagdadis came and settled in the lands of Ummah their passport was Kalima. And we need to have that universal passport once again to propel towards real progress. When you are stuck with narrow minded Kashmir for Kashmiris slogan, then you are in perpetual misery and deadlock.
آج وہ کشمير ہے محکوم و مجبور و فقير
کل جسے اہل نظر کہتے تھے ايران صغير
سينہء افلاک سے اٹھتي ہے آہ سوز ناک
مرد حق ہوتا ہے جب مرعوب سلطان و امير
کہہ رہا ہے داستاں بيدردي ايام کي
کوہ کے دامن ميں وہ غم خانہء دہقان پير
آہ! يہ قوم نجيب و چرب دست و تر دماغ
ہے کہاں روز مکافات اے خدائے دير گير؟
To begin with Shirazi is not my last name.
Secondly I don't mind intermingling of races in any part of the globe as long as it's peaceful, controlled and legal. Not when Jihadis from all over the globe gather in my backyard and then their presence attracts troops I have every right to protest. I don't deserve all this. I don't need all this. Kashmir never had khana kaaba or Bait ul Mukadas. We don't want epi-center of religious struggles. If someone is so fond of it why don't they start all this mayhem from their backyard?
shirazi, that's a done deal, the mayhem from our own backyard has been spread far and wide. No getting past it. Also the question of whether Kashmir will join up with Pakistan or not is immaterial. What is important, as far as I can see, is that Kashmiris should cease to serve as fodder for the gun power of the Indian army. And the answer to that seems to be it will come about through Khalistan. I, for one, hope that it is true. And as is true for everything to do with us nowadays, what we need now is a cool head, a sea of patience and faith to match.
shimatoree, sorry friend, Real Politik on the one hand, hope on the other. This too is a fact of life we'd err in denying.
Mirza. What has Khalistan got to do with this
Mirza saheb implied that both Pakistan and Khalistan have 'purity' in common. So it makes more sense that we cede Kashmir but acquire Khalistan instead. No more Wagha border or LoC.
And why would Sikhs agree to become part of pakistan?
Kashmir is not a beautiful?
I've heard some of the most beautiful valleys exist in Kashmir. but thats off topic,
I dont know what Kashmiris want... do they want an independant state for themselves?
Why are Sikhs dragged here?
We should know the history of Sikhs as they were used for centuries by Hindu Zeolots to challenge Muslim rule. The Hindus created Sikhism for their own vested interests. They wanted a martial race to counter Muslim domination and groomed the Sikhs.
Most of the Sikh gurus were executed by Mughals. Their hatred of Muslims run deep. When the Khalistan movement took hold the Indian media dubbed Bhindranwale as a terrorist when he asked for independance. When the Sikhs revolted against Mughal rule, all of their gurus are elevated as martyrs and heros. As a matter of fact the Khalistan issue was the creation of Hindus themselves. They trained Sikhs like dogs to hunt Muslims and then it boomeranged and the dog started biting the master.
From what I understand the concept of martial aspect if sikhism was born in Aurangzeb's time, their 9th of 10 gurus. Guru Nanak was the founder of their faith and was of Babur's time.
Mirza saab Chad deo khalistan da khera, koi hoor kaam dhanda karo this business of khalistan is out of market no one buys it any more. jagoo maharaj ji this is not 1985 this is 2010.
koi aamb(mango) deo ghalib sahib nu inna di yadddasht thek hove.
Good Lord, I didn't know just the mention of Khaliston would have everyone up in arms. Otherwise I'd have kept it to myself.
Singh Isking, keep your shirt on. If the Khalistan movement is passé, then so be it. This is what I've been told. If told wrongly, then my apologies. In fact, many apologies to the Sikhs for many things, including their betrayal once by BB. I'm not inciting anyone to anything. Stating facts simply.
BO, again, quite, excellent piece of advice.
AR, The Sikhs were dragged in here, by me on top of it all, because that is one of the solutions to the Kashmir problem we hear about. But now listening to my fellow bloggers, it would appear that is a stupid approach.
And why Khalistan? someone asked. It's mainly a geographical matter. Have a look at the map and you'll see why.