Decision on Davis delayed ....says what?



  • http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/18/world/asia/18pakistan.html?pagewanted=all

    court has given 3 weeks to the Govt to prove that he has got immunity .

    what it says?

    its too difficult to get one side or another for the courts also?



  • Bottom line, so far Foreign Office has not shared official position on the status of Raymond.

    Probably they will provide a certificate which will get challenged on the basis of forgery.

    If Raymond's fate is left to Pak Court System, then that alone is like big punishment for an american :)



  • choraa naloo pind kahili

    After catching up on the legal details of the case by watching expert opinions on shows of Dawn's Arshad and Mubashir Luqman's, I say Pakistan has a weak case. Here's a summary of possible arguments on both sides.

    Pakistan +'s/US's -'s

    -Firing on back of a person is no self defense

    -Diplomats don't carry that kind of gear

    -Discrepancy in status and affiliation with embassy/consulates

    -Content of the camera film

    -carrying multiple IDs

    -Pak to press on second vehicle case to Davis

    Pakistan's -'s

    -Davis did not leave the scene on own, the traffic officer told him to do so (statement of people on the scene)

    -Pak filed weak FIRs, did not press espionage charges, dafa 319 should have been filed

    • Second vehicle incident would not be related since they were not involved at the incident

    • Pak FO have discrepancies in their paper work on Davis

    • Pak did not decline Davis's application even after raising queries from US which were not provided

    US +'s

    -Diplomatic passport alone is the best document to seek immunity per Vienna and Geneva conventions

    • US had asked diplomatic visa for Davis, Pak FO rules do not allow diplomatic visas for certain cases, so the only tick US could check mark on the application was special staff


  • So now court is saying why don't you settle outside the court and come back in 3 weeks :)



  • Diplomatic passport alone is the best document to seek immunity per Vienna and Geneva conventions.

    I heard x-diplomats saying that dip passport alone does not mean any thing unless the host country registers the applicant as diplomat and provides ID/Certificate as token of recognition, in case of Devis that certificate does not exist, only thing that exists is an application from US.

    Now if foreign office provides a document saying that yes this guy is registered with us as diplomat only then he can get away, but then there is suspicion that FO might forge documents, so this newly provided certificate can also get challenged.



  • Govt is trying to gain some time in order to convince the family of the victims Or to cool down public anger and after some time give immunity to Davis urf Daus.



  • In US mind Davis is always a diplomat, they filed his application for this status. Pakistan FO issued him a lower grade visa. In this case, Pakistan could have rejected the application and US could have withdrawn the application upon issuance of non-diplomat visa. But none did that. So both found a middle ground which is the grey area (to US he's a diplomat to Pakistan he's not, both countries have supporting evidence in own right). Pakistan should have not stamped a non-diplomatic visa on a diplomatic passport, they should have asked a private passport suitable for a contractor.

    In this situation, the status part of case could be settled in a neutral country. If the neutral country court rules, he's a diplomat he would go free, if they rule he's no diplomat Pakistan can then proceed with criminal charges in own court.

    Barrister Sibghatullah Qadri is quite certain that Vienna convention, they way it is interpreted by the countries, grants Davis immunity if the host country had accepted him on a diplomatic passport regardless of visa type or FO registration.



  • it is quite simple, basic question is that at the time of crime what was the status of the guy based on host country's record?

    This basic question can only be answered by Pak Foreign Office, so far they have not said anything.



  • @BO

    please see

    http://pkpolitics.com/discuss/topic/shah-mehmoods-press-conference-on-davis-issue#post-211643

    and

    http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=31535&Cat=2&dt=2/16/2011

    Even if he is confirmed as a consular technical staff which is the US govts claim that does not give him blanket immunity for all crimes.



  • @Salam

    Exactly, the host country cannot accept regular guys on diplomatic passport. I carry an official Pak passport (not diplomatic), nobody gives a danm what the visa type is. The kind of passport speaks volume. I don't even have visa sometimes, just a letter written by the host country's embassy telling the authorities to let me in, without even declaring what is my status or purpose of entry in the host country and it is sufficient to enter and receive protocol :). This is all based on passport and letter, no visa. I'm not a diplomat. I can betcha diplomat guys have lot more privileges. This does not mean I have immunity, I'm only making a point the kind of understanding host countries have on carrying a certain passport.



  • BO

    Next time when you travel on Pakistani official passport, do ask the immigration if you have DIPLOMATIC IMMUNITY or not, please don't confuse it with entry visa, Pak govt passport does not mean diplomatic immunity, you will get arrested if you do something 'naughty' ;)

    Thanks-



  • i totally agree with Google .

    its just a time buying technique .

    to get rid of the anger right now.

    after 3 weeks nobody would ask about Davis.

    some 300 issues were be hot at that time on media.



  • I should claim diplomatic immunity on official passport which is only slightly better than private passport???????



  • diplomatic immunity is only for diplomats associated with embassy or consulate

    some one traveling on govt passport does not enjoy ANY immunity



  • If victims are paid blood money and they agree to with draw case, would that settle the issue w/o invoking diplomatic immunity?



  • That means first court convicts Devis with murder and sends him to gallows, then he can negotiate with families for waver of gallows-

    This whole process itself takes few YEARS

    Zardari can also be used to forgive him, but even in that case court must CONCLUDE on a verdict first.



  • The passport says on he is "on diplomatic assignment".

    Pakistan stamps visa on it.

    And he's not a diplomat? like I said چوراں نالوں پنڈ کاہلی



  • Yes, this visa does not mean that he enjoys 'blanket immunity', for immunity US has to register him & get immunity certificate from host country, apparently he does not have this certificate which means no immunity-

    seems like you have been busy for past 3 weeks because all these points have been covered by Law Experts in media, try watching some old programs to see the tech details involved



  • So now you are back to visa which you were earlier refuting by arguing his status with foreign office.

    The only common document between the two countries is passport and visa. Doesn't matter what other documents either of the country maintain in local record. So passport and visa is what the either could legally argue on court.



  • not sure what you mean by 'back to visa', i said that host country has to recognize and provide certification and only then immunity is effective

    type of visa or type of passport do not dictate immunity status-


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