Decision on Davis delayed ....says what?



  • So that means there could be an ambassador in Pakistan who might not have diplomatic immunity because Pak FO has not provided a certification.



  • @bo

    please read the vienna convention link

    even if he is a diplomat he does not have blanket immunity



  • @gv

    Not arguing blank, but there is some immunity for sure because of the type of passport he carries.

    The convention even guarantees immunity to family members.



  • Precisely, or for example Pakistani ambassador to Egypt has full immunity in Egypt but he may be traveling to France for any xyz reason, there in France he is not going to have IMMUNITY despite his official passport or official visa



  • what?? That's obvious that an ambassador does not carry global immunity, only in host country.

    If the host country has accepted the ambassador or diplomats, they are entitled to automatic immunity per convention. There is no requirement of carrying a certification from the host country.



  • میری تو بس ہوگئی، کوئی اور ہی اس بھائی کو سمجھائے

    مہربانی



  • @BO

    Article 41 of the Vienna Convention for Consular Affairs

    Personal inviolability of consular officers

    1.Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, **except in the case of a

    grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.**



  • no killer in any case has an immunity .

    he is not in the position to even defend his self defense stance.



  • @gv

    Davis is not consular officer. He is a member of technical and admin staff. 41 is not applicable to him.



  • he is a member of technical and admin staff at the Lahore consulate not the Islamabad embassy

    41 is applicable to all consular staff i.e. non embassy staff.

    also as salam points out the issuer of diplomatic status is the host country



  • The convention defines very clearly the designations: 'head of mission', 'agent', 'member of mission', 'members of the staff of the mission', 'members of the diplomatic staff' and 'members of the administrative and technical staff'.

    What page has definition of consular officer?



  • Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    (1) The other day, in some talk show, I heard the fact that Pakistan has not (and I repeat: has not) "ratified" all clauses/parts of Vienna Convention

    Pakistan has only ratified specific clauses starting from 25 or so, till 35.

    The clauses which Pakistan has ratified as law of the land in constitution of Pakistan, they do not provide Mr. Raymond Davis or whoever that human being is, the "immunity" that is being talked about, everywhere.


    (2) No kind of "immunity" can absolve a human being of the "charge" of murder of another human being

    Three "cold blooded" murders have been committed in Lahore, by human beings who belong to a foreign collective.



  • @hariskhan

    really? good news, is it possible to accept few articles and not the while convention, but sounds a bit odd. I would think the signatories agree to all clauses.



  • Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @barackosama: Good point.

    Even then, my 2nd point still stands. Treaties cannot over-shadow that fact.



  • @bo

    If you follow the link to the other thread I have posted the link to the official vienna declaration there are two separate docs one pertaining to embassy's and one one pertaining to consulates article 41 is only applicable to consular staff



  • Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    "gv" has a valid point. I agree.


    @barackosama: Immunity does not apply to all members in the "same" way.

    Does the Vienna Convention say, it does ?



  • Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @barackosama: I am looking at Vienna Convention in [PDF] format at this location. I found it through my google search. I searched this PDF.

    I cannot corroborate what you said in this post.



  • @hariskhan

    Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961

    Article 37 page 11-12

    2.Members of the administrative and technical staff of the mission, together with members of their families forming part of their respective households, shall, if they are not nationals of or permanently resident in the receiving State, enjoy the privileges and immunities specified in articles 29 to 35, except that the immunity from civil and administrative jurisdiction of the receiving State specified in paragraph 1 of article 31 shall not extend to acts performed outside the course of their duties. They shall also enjoy the privileges specified in article 36, paragraph 1, in respect of articles imported at the time of first installation.

    http://untreaty.un.org/ilc/texts/instruments/english/conventions/9_1_1961.pdf



  • Assalam-o-Alaikum-Warahmat-ULLAH ALL,

    @barackosama: I searched the PDF for the words "Members of the administrative and technical staff". The search returned zero matches.

    The PDF I'm looking at is of the Vienna Convention as it was put forward in 1969. Article 37 is on page 14. The following is what I see for Article 37 in that PDF;

    Article 37

    Revocation or modification of obligations or rights of third States

    1. When an obligation has arisen for a third State in conformity with article 35, the obligation may be revoked or modified only with the consent of the parties to the treaty and of the third State, unless it is established that they had otherwise agreed.

    2. When a right has arisen for a third State in conformity with article 36, the right may not be revoked or modified by the parties if it is established that the right was intended not to be revocable or subject to modification without the consent of the third State.



  • @hariskhan

    I dunno about 1969. The ones applicable are 1961 and 1963. There are a quite few Vienna conventions, you need to check diplomatic one (e.g. Vienna Convention on Diplomatic Relations 1961).


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