Voter List --Nadra-- Missing Voter dilemma



  • saladin89

    let me give u an example

    At this time , required age of voter is 18 yrs. Elections are held now according to current lists with voters of 18 , 19,20 yrs included.

    After 3 yrs , parliament decides to alter the age of voter to 21.

    Would u call these rollss bogus or elections fraud ?

    Noooo.

    Why

    Because as per current law , they are valid voters and if a law is subsequently changed ,it won't impact today's position.

    Similarly, those votes which were there in lists (rather were included on explicit orders of SC ) were totally valid votes .

    Hope it makes the point easier for u to understand.



  • @saladin89

    There was no PTI candidate in these by elections. These are BS lies of PMLn's rana sana and Ahsan Iqbal who were exposed in the media today.



  • @Sharif Aadmi

    I do not really know what part you don't get. Even if we were to assume SC's verdict was the way you said it was, we have new one which states that bogus votes needs to be eliminated and new voters needs to be included.

    So, what is the misty for you ???

    Why did SC allow people without NADRA card in 2008 is something you need to ask SC but my take is that no one should be allowed without CNIC or Computerized Passport to vote.

    In Canada, people need to show the proof of their citizenship PLUS a valid photo ID (as a proof of their address) to cast a vote. Why cannot we have the same system in Pakistan.



  • @saladin89,

    hehehehehehe, quit being naughty bro....not only did you not know that there was a by-election, but your little puny drawing room party was not only secretly supporting the joint candidate of PPP and PML (Q) but had also fielded an independent candidate to further divide the votes. Alas, all the conspiracies fell flat their faces.



  • Are u being serious 24/7, there was no candidate on behalf of PTI, and when there is u will know about it. The only reason I did not know about it because there was no candidate running on behalf of PTI. Keep the on dreaming bro, just like your lousy hukumran who are lieing so are u.



  • @sharif aadmi

    let me give u a fact. 45% jaali bogus votes did take place and PPP AND Pml N benefited millions of millions of rigged votes.



  • Saladin,

    You will be beating this issue to death without fail and yet your leader and his tanga party will be contesting on the same voter list come next elections.....you can count on the fact that we will not let him run away.



  • Saladin

    Meeray piyre bahi

    "

    Even if we were to assume SC's verdict was the way you said it was, we have new one which states that bogus votes needs to be eliminated and new voters needs to be included.

    "

    a) U need not to assume , the SC verdict was very clear in 2007 and reference is given above. IF u have any doubt about that , u can check with legal faternity.

    b) The new verdict of SC is applicable from the date of new verdict, u can't call previous elections or voters bogus on the basis of this verdict.

    "

    Why did SC allow people without NADRA card in 2008 is something you need to ask SC but my take is that no one should be allowed without CNIC or Computerized Passport to vote.

    "

    c) I accept all verdicts of SC . the previous vedict was as good as this new one.

    d) Your or mine take doesn't matter. SC verdict matters.

    BTW , can u tell me that how much percent of pakinai masses have CNIC or passport ? i m sure not 100 % .

    e)

    "

    In Canada, people need to show the proof of their citizenship PLUS a valid photo ID (as a proof of their address) to cast a vote. Why cannot we have the same system in Pakistan.

    "

    Do we have as good systems as Canada. I live in austrlaia, and there driving license is as good as CNIC. Do we have such good systems ?



  • @Sharif Aadmi

    So your argument is that the 2008 elections should not be called fraudulent ?

    From the link posted in your first post, this is what i got

    At the last hearing, the court said it was unconstitutional to restrict registration of voters to only those who could produce national identity cards and asked the Commission to come up with a method to correct the lists.

    Following the directive, the Election Commission decided to do away with the requirement of national identity cards for registration and decided to launch a new door-to-door drive for enrolment.

    So the SC still asked the commission to "correct the lists" !!!

    What point are you arguing here for ??



  • Do we have as good systems as Canada. I live in austrlaia, and there driving license is as good as CNIC. Do we have such good systems ?

    I do not know about Australia but in Canada, a driver's licence is NOT the proof of citizenship hence not equivalent to CNIC. You still need to produce an evidence as a proof that you are a citizen.



  • salaadin ,

    if u bothered to visit the link provided , it said.

    "

    he Supreme Court of Pakistan on Friday set the Election Commission a month’s deadline to include 30 million persons in revised electoral rolls after complaints that they have been left out.

    "

    So , it was SC who ordered the inclusion of those 30 million votes excluded on the basis of NADRA verification.

    By mentonoing Australian DL , i meant that our systems are not as good as Australian or candadian , so those examples don't apply.



  • saladin89

    let me give u an example

    At this time , required age of voter is 18 yrs. Elections are held now according to current lists with voters of 18 , 19,20 yrs included.

    After 3 yrs , parliament decides to alter the age of voter to 21.

    Would u call these rollss bogus or elections fraud ?

    Noooo.

    Why

    Because as per current law , they are valid voters and if a law is subsequently changed ,it won't impact today's position.

    Similarly, those votes which were there in lists (rather were included on explicit orders of SC ) were totally valid votes .

    Hope it makes the point easier for u to understand.

    Did u get this example ?



  • The Supreme Court of Pakistan on Friday set the Election Commission a month’s deadline to include 30 million persons in revised electoral rolls after complaints that they have been left out.

    They should include 30 million who were left out but where does it say that there were no bogus votes ?

    I still do not know what point are you arguing here for ?

    Having to include 30 million does not mean there were no bogus votes !!!



  • @sharif aadmi

    I do not understand the point u are trying to make either, could u give another example.

    let me make it clear 37 million votes out of 80 million were found fake while more than 35 million are not registered either, over which the Supreme Court has issued verdict

    Now what is your point?



  • saladin,

    This verdict has come in april , 2011 so doesn't apply to rolls in 2008.

    i repeat my example now.

    in 2008 , voter age was 18. Now , NA , the competent authority changes the age to 25 , that would mean that a few million (assume 5 million) votes become would become in-eligible . Would u call these votes/voters fake ?



  • @SA,

    You are textbook example of a sophist - a person who uses or abuses logic and reason for evil ends.

    You have tried hard to prove why fraudulent and fake elections of 2008, held under the black law of NRO and on fake voter lists, were legitimate, because you consider yourself as a spokesperson for the corrupts.

    You deserve whatever I have said above. You are a meethy churi - a soft front for the corrupts and the evils of our society. You deserve heaps of contempt.

    Now let me destroy your legal gymnastics.

    ECP, on the basis of NADRA database, which is a very accurate computerized database, estimated that around 37 million votes are fake and bogus in the previous electoral rolls. This was not vague - it was clearly mentioned that these fake votes did not belong any living person, fake addresses were registered, dead people were registered etc.

    Supreme Court of Pakistan has decided to support the above assessment and has given orders to ECP to correct the voter lists. This makes the previous voter list fraud and bogus, as per Supreme court, which makes the 2008 elections null and void.

    As for 2007 decision, in LIGHT Of the current decision, that decision was WRONG. By virtue of declaring the said votes as bogus in the new decision, SC has admitted its erroneous judgement in 2007. The elections CAN be declared null and void in retrospect and a mid-term elections can be held.

    SC can declare the 2008 polls as bogus simply based on NRO alone.

    Apart from that, what about morality and ethics? Since we know now that a huge number of votes were bogus, by simply following simple democratic norms, we should be asking a new mid-term election based on new, corrected voter lists. But of course, a sophist like you has little to do with morality and ethics.



  • emotional ChangeIk,

    your personal remarks reflect your family background and upbringing

    SC verdict can't have retrospective effect.

    The elections of 2008 were held as per law of land and according to which CNIC was not a requirement.

    So , if law of land has changed now (by virtue of SC verdict) , how does it effect the legality of an event which has occured in past ?



  • Btw,

    If someone can't hear other party's argument and respond to that logically , he should refrain from indulging in any discussion.



  • Logically that person ought to be covering something really "valuable" with both his hands since "that" person is in Bannu right now ;)



  • @Sharif Aadmni,

    I know very well the family background - or LACK thereof - of people like you are the mouthpieces of corrupts. Your upbringing is clearly reflected in your having no shame to stand up for fraud. It seems your upbringing involves the beneficiaries of this corrupt status quo.

    I will fully expose your (lack of) family background next time you talked about mine, you cry baby.

    To return to the issue, the fraud elections of 2008 were NOT held under the law of the land. They were held when Supreme Court Judges were under HOUSE ARREST, when a fake Dogar Court was in effect. On this very basis, the elections can be considered null and void.

    The Supreme Court can VERY WELL apply the decision retrospectively. The EVENT of 2008 elections occurred in the past, but the GOVERNMENT resulting from that elections is affecting Pakistan AT PRESENT, when the electoral rolls of 2008 have been declared bogus. So while legal legitimacy of this government (considering only fake votes issue, and not NRO, Judges under house arrests - two issues which are enough to disqualify the elections) can be accepted UP TILL this new decision, no such legitimacy need exist AFTER this decision. New elections should be held.

    It is because of paid lawyers and beneficiaries of the corrupts like Asma Jahangir (she is not paid, but beneficiary) and others, that the Supreme has been under so much pressure to take real bold decisions. However, legal basis exists for those.

    I have destroyed your sophistry - you stand undressed.