Humanising Religion





  • I wonder if that thought had crossed the mind of the Companions of Rasool Allaah Sallaho Alayhi wa Alaa Alayhi wa Sallam or for that matter Rasool Allaah Sallaho Alayhi wa Ala Alayhi wa Sallam.

    No it didnt ?

    Really but werent they who had received,witnessed and forwarded the religion to everyone....

    Why didnt they think of it ?



  • @nnl,

    did it occur to you that the Prophet himself and all the sahaba went through a religious experience themselves in order to give up the faith of their ancestors..



  • Gv

    Religious Experience ?

    Could you elaborate on it like what are you specifically referring to that happened in their lives which you consider a religious experience ?

    maybe we are talking about the same thing in 2 different ways.



  • a very good article indeed.....

    this is exactly what i try to say in faith and religioun section mostly....

    we "follow" just because we are born in a "muslim" household. we dont go through that religious experience.... and then if somebody else question our beliefs, and when we are unable to give answers because of our lack of religious experience, understanding, logic and reasoning...... blasphemy law comes in handy

    @NNL

    sahabas (raziAllah anho) may have gone through that religious experience...... but Prophet (saw) was the one who brought the deen of Allah, islam with him. islam is not a product of Rasool Allah's religious experience..... it is the deen of Allah...... divine thing.... and Holy Prophet is divine because he brought divine religion, deen in its true form to us, the mankind.....

    had it been a product of somebody's thought process, somebody's religious experience..... it wouldnt have been divine.....

    buddhism was the "religious experience" of buddha..... it was the product of buddha's thought process..... and it wasnt divine....



  • shaagird

    we "follow" just because we are born in a "muslim" household

    False knowledge is more dangerous than ignorance....

    .and then if somebody else question our beliefs, and when we are unable to give answers because of our lack of religious experience, understanding, logic and reasoning...... blasphemy law comes in handy

    You won't able to answer somebody's else questions not because of religious experience but because of false knowledge.... If your beliefs are based on false knowledge then you won't be able to answer somebody's question even your life is heavily inspired by religion....First, your logic/reasoning must be based on true knowledge... Just take example of Christians they believe in trinity---- The base of their beliefs is corrupt (false knowledge).... God doesnt say, he is three in one and they use logic and reasoning to prove it true...... See, you believe your imam infallible, and you try to prove it from quran, infact there isn't single verse in the whole Quran which supports your doctrine that there is another place like immamat after prophet hood .... see, it's simple, you must have true knowledge then your experience will be true and you will answer all the questions



  • oblivious baby, again, u r mistaken

    dont be such a 'laqeer ka faqeer' and 'kunwein ka mendak'.... try to see the depth of what i said!

    if christians use "logic" and "reasoning" for their beliefs, then u can use counter "logic" and "reasoning" to prove them wrong..... the ultimate "logic and reasoning" that will triumph is what i am talking about

    and yes, since you are not QAAIL of using your brain and AQL, i.e. logic and reasoning, u'll only accuse me of your perceptions regarding my beliefs....

    i hope u get well soon



  • ah well!!!!

    if christians use "logic" and "reasoning" for their beliefs, then u can use counter "logic" and "reasoning" to prove them wrong.

    what a utlamte logic, you have won the electra!!!!!

    who will believe himself wrong? ---- Do you believe yourself wrong? --- Do i believe myself wrong? Will a jew/christian/atheist believe him self wrong --- They consider your logic as flawed because they are highly inspired by their religious experience not by yours? Grow up student shaagird, life isn't bed of roses, sooner or later you have to wake up

    and yes, since you are not QAAIL of using your brain and AQL, i.e. logic and reasoning, u'll only accuse me of your perceptions regarding my beliefs....

    Isn't contraditcion what you said, earlier

    .and then if somebody else question our beliefs, and when we are unable to give answers because of our lack of religious experience, understanding, logic and reasoning...... blasphemy law comes in handy

    You can't answer because of two reason

    1. The base on which your beliefs are standing is false

    2. You don't have knoweldge to prove me wrong....



  • dear oblivious

    if somebody doesnt come up with an open mind to debate, it means he is not using logic and reasoning...... but just blindly or egoistically following his beliefs

    and poor soul, the matter with you is that you can not support your beliefs with logic and reasoning...... after all you are not QAAIL of using your brain and AQL...... therefore you can not defend your beliefs.....

    or nehatton pe hamla kerna waisay bhi ghair ikhlaqi hai



  • if somebody doesnt come up with an open mind to debate, it means he is not using logic and reasoning...... but just blindly or egoistically following his beliefs

    Right, let's start open debate, so i can see,

    Let's say, i don't believe in God, How you will convince through your religious experience and knowledge that there is infallible God----please, also define God?



  • dear oblivious, it seems like you've got my point

    you should ask yourself how everything came into being?????

    and how and why everything in the universe is so well synchronized?

    http://www.al-islam.org/short/halila/

    i recomment you read hadith halila...

    and i am assuming that you believe in God... only because you were born in a "muslim" family, i am assuming so because it looks like it because of the way you asked me about God. if i m wrong, then you should tell me the other reason....



  • it seems like you've got my point

    what makes you to seem that I've got your point.... Is it your religious experience?

    Now I've started believing in God because of your ultimate reasoning... Now please tell, Can human infallible like God? .... If i believe in infallibility of human, then how i would differentiate this belief from the belief of God.... i hope you would get the point...



  • Allah is Almighty. He has control over everything. and everything is His creation.

    He can give attributes to His creation as He wishes.. and He has made His representatives infallible because they are His representatives... how can He make someone who is prone to making mistakes His representative????? will the mankind then hold His representatives credible????

    will you listen to some islamic cleric who gives sermons to others but doesnt follow them himself?????? will you hold such a cleric credible and respectable?????



  • those who say that naozobillah Rasool (saw) made mistakes... they commit blasphemy. and they should be punished



  • He can give attributes to His creation as He wishes.. and He has made His representatives infallible because they are His representatives... how can He make someone who is prone to making mistakes His representative????? will the mankind then hold His representatives credible????

    Please do you have any reference for this claim from quran or other book which is holly to you

    those who say that naozobillah Rasool (saw) made mistakes... they commit blasphemy. and they should be punished

    Those who believe Rasool of Allah as infalliabe like God they have place Rasool of Allah at the same rankd with Allah.... The messenger of Allah was human, he had made errs like many prophets made, this shows the limitless of Prophet before Allah...



  • dear, poor oblivious

    ULIL AMR is mentioned in quran at numerous occasions.. u should study quran thoroughly, and then ask others to give evidences..... asking others to give u quranic references while u remain ignorant is like insulting knowledge and wisdom. so kindly act mature!

    secondly, if somebody is infallible, that doesnt mean he is being equated with God, naozobillah... this shows how insecue your faith in God is... ur faith so easily falters at the idea of the perfection God has put in his representatives for the mankind....... thats a shame.... u claim to respect his messengers that he sent for the well being of mankind, yet, u yourself nullify your beliefs by saying that they committed mistakes



  • Shaagir

    ULIL AMR is mentioned in quran at numerous occasions..

    what ulil amr has to do with your 12 imams and their infallibility --- if immamat is so important like prophet hood then Why ALLAH didn't show any clear sign on imamat of tweleve imams , even ALLAH truly explained merits of sahaba’s! Then why not imamat?

    if somebody is infallible, that doesnt mean he is being equated with God, naozobillah...

    yes he equated someone with Allah --- See, i tell you , majority of shias ask help from Ali rather asking help from Allah --- It means shia believe Ali as more Infalliabe than God --- that's why they prefer Ali than Allah --- Now i know you will say, that you don't believe like this way --- but that's what your belief are portraying....

    u claim to respect his messengers that he sent for the well being of mankind, yet, u yourself nullify your beliefs by saying that they committed mistakes

    The prophet of Allah made mistakes, it shows his fallibility and limitless before Allah -- Remember mistake aren't Sins --- Adam (Pbuh) made mistakes --- Doesn't it mean Adam made sins ---



  • dear poor oblivious

    since you can not understand ulil amr, u can not understand the importance of God's representation in this world...

    and secondly, shias dont PREFER hazrat Ali over anyone.... jis ka jo haq hai, wo ada kerna chahiye...

    actually, we dont raise anyone over a limit, or we dont bring down someone to a certain limit. we keep them where they belong. but you on the other hand, naozobillah, under estimate the supremacy of Allah. and a slightest confusion makes your beliefs stumble regarding the supremacy of God... Allah is over and above all His creations....

    and most importantly, when hazrat adam was sent on this planet, there was no other human... he was sent here to do the bandgadi of Allah... hazrat muhammad was sent not for bandagi but for the universal well being. he came with divine guidance for the people who existed before his dunyavi wujood



  • Allah is over and above all His creations....

    Right

    Then

    "Ya ali Madad"

    what does it mean???

    Rather

    "Ya allah madad"

    please explain



  • "agar ali (as) na hotay tou main mar jata"

    ye qaul kis ka hai??????...... mujhay tou maloon hai, aap apnay muun say bayan ker dijiye.....

    aagay ki baat sirf is ka jawab milnay k baad he hogi