Who controls the destiny of Pakistan?



  • I have often wondered about the answer to this question and my answer keeps changing every time I try to answer it.

    Is it the politicians, is it foreign forces, is it big corporations, is it the people, is it the banks, is it the military, is it the media or is it the feudal lords? Who or what controls our destiny?

    What do you think?



  • All of the above. How about that? But you are jumping the Gun here. Question should be how to take charge of your destiny? Destiny lay in future somewhere and you have already given up?



  • Jutt Kharak

    You need to know who controls it before you can work out how to take it away from them.

    No, I have not given up at all. I just think we need to work out where to start the fixing process. I do not believe in living in the past or the future. Our only option as a nation is to live in the here and now. The present is where your destiny is made or broken.

    I do not think the answer is as simplistic as 'All of the above', it is perhaps deeper. Let me come back to you on this.



  • @StingingNettle.....answer to your query is "no one", its the rudderless at the moment...

    without getting into religion aspect or attempting to act philosophical here, I would say the destiny of Pakistan is discussed and decided by USA-West coaliation, trimmed and inflated by circumstances, put on course by greed and selfishness, shaped by civilian leadership, executed by military janta and thrown to dogs by its population!!!

    Like I said above, Pak's destiny is rudderless!!!



  • SultanAliKhan;

    Thanks for your comments; I think you make a credible point about Pakistan's destiny looking rudderless. I can see your angle on this and I can't help feeling hugely alarmed by the lack of direction.

    To me the biggest stake holders in Pakistan's destiny are the people who endure unspeakable hardship in their everyday life but it seems either they are incapable of understanding the connection between their actions and their destiny or they simply suffer from 'someone-else-will-do-it' syndrome. The huge non-voting class of Pakistan behaves like a 'rusaeya maahee' (my attempt at a Punjabi expression)who refuse to take part in the political process because it's just too dirty and yes, it smells to high heaven. You notice therefore the growth of gated communities of 'rusaeyae maahee' cropping up everywhere. It's the sign of the times. We don't want live with the consequences of our inaction but we don't want to take interest and act. Bizarre.

    It's a bit like film scene in which everyone is so caught up in a situation on an aircraft, when someone shouts, 'and who the hell is flying the plane!' SAK, I think you may have nailed it.



  • people living in Pakistan... All shape & form... who elected president among them self and blame same president for doing what whole nation is doing.

    expakistani



  • Expakistani

    I think what you say carries weight. The only thing I would like to add is, it is not the people of Pakistan who elected the current president to lead our destiny; he was 'elected' as a result of some very suspect voting lists, crony-ism and Pakistan's love for the glorious dead. So, no he was no more elected than Bilawal was or will be in the future. We take the notion of safe-seat to a new level. I won't elaborate lest I should offend.

    It might just be our worst nightmare come true; we are nationally inept as opposed to just institutionally or individually. A very grim prospect indeed.



  • Bhai

    tell me few things

    • Who creates voting list?? some indian citizen?

    • Who agreed to select/elect Billawa? Russian Citizen?

    • Who bribed and get Bribed on Liberty Chowak lahore... American citizen?

    • Most who do crony-ism and preach again it in Karachi and Kyber are Pakistani Citizen.



  • Expakistani

    At no point did I suggest that people who helped rig the elections were foreigners. I actually agree with your point that it is not foreign conspirators that elect/select these nepotistic dumbos but us Pakistanis who are either part of the defrauding process or are too scared to stand up and say no to it.

    My point is; can we ever take control of our destiny? Do we have the mindset to do it or are we a nation of Mir Jaffars who are destined to derail any process that will lead us out of this misery? I believe the fog will lift once we understand that fatalism is not the narrative of success and neither is the glorification of the dead. Can people begin to think beyond me, myself and I and start working on we, ourselves and us? I don't know the answer to this. However, one thing I know, we must disengage from the deadly embrace of nostalgia and personality cults.



  • @ stingingnettle

    To me the biggest stake holders in Pakistan's destiny are the people who endure unspeakable hardship in their everyday life but it seems either they are incapable of understanding the connection between their actions and their destiny or they simply suffer from 'someone-else-will-do-it' syndrome.

    Excellent analysis. Now question is who will be able to cure this syndrome. I can not see anyone in current lot of leaders.



  • @StingingNettle.......mate love your description of Pakistanis ineptitude "rusaeya maahee".....a good attempt at Punjabi, aye!!! keep it up..

    @ExPakistani....you seemed pizzed at people's overuse of "conspiracy theory" as a punch bag for all their problems....and your anger appears well directed....



  • In this cosy club atmosphere with each one agreeing with everyone else, may I interject a small voice of dissent. No one controls Pakistan's destiny. Our desitny is written in the stars. You are all arguing, seems to me, from a western attitude towards one of the most eastern of countries.

    Forget awam-bashing, would you. The people of Pakistan are daily out on the streets, if anyone is following the news, and they are treated like a lot of passive idiots. That they are not. Also, one factor which is never mentioned on most occasions, Pakistan is at war, has been at war over the past ten years, eleventh year starting. So, to get back to your question, the destiny of Pakistan is closely linked to the outcome of that war and who will control it thereafter should also be clear to all those who know something about Pak politics, the only politician we have around with absolutely clean hands.



  • it is not a rocket science !!!!!!!!

    if a politician complains to be not in control over the matters he/she should resign immediately,

    if politicians want military establishment not to intervene, dictate & control it has to be inspired by high moral ground.

    Corrupts, crooks, loan deaulters, money launderers, SRO, NRO ,those involved in Kick backs, commissions, bribes, under table deals, govt contracts favors, nepotism ,lickers of genrals, America,royal family of Saudia Arabia , deal makers, & have interest out side Pakistan, may never achieve the goal, if you want to have real example study Turkey history specially for the last 15 years



  • @OSL

    That's exactly what PTI demands and that's exactly what happened in Erdogan's Turkey. He did go for elections instead of becoming the puppet of the Turkish army. After the elections he came back with an even more solid mandate and has put the Turkish army in to it's rightful place. Look to which heights he is taken Turkey towards to? Great man with a vision for Turkey. May he get success, ameen!



  • lol@rosy club...in fact it was becoming suffocating...thanks for the dissenting note....

    Well Mirza Ghalib...there is no doubt about Pakistanis amongst the bravest people; facing the most unfriendly conditions without much ado, no denying that...

    It is only their upper storey that seems clogged when it comes to electing their leaders...hence destiny theoritically is in their own hands, but practically they are the ones letting it slip and rendering rudderless!!!!



  • Thanks SultanAliKhan, I'm glad you agree about the Pakistanis being "amongst the bravest of people+. As for whether they voted in any government whatsoever, they may have been much maligned since the number of bogus votes we've managed to trace since seems to imply they might not have voted in anyone at all.

    No comment on Turkey which is neither fish nor flesh nor good red herring and an ally of infamous NATO. But keep your worship alive, why not. It's only Muslims getting killed after all.



  • Mirza Ghalib

    I agree with you, a debate without dissent is simply the AGM of National Mutual Congratulatory Society. I appreciate you sprinkling some lemon juice on the debate.

    First of foremost, you and I are the awam, the people, the consumers of the fine truths that are chucked our away by a motley crew of politicians, bureaucrats, military brass, foreigners and anybody else who is a purveyor of fine truths. I have no desire to insult or bash the awam, I am sure we are capable of doing it brilliantly ourselves.

    Ghalib, I am happy to accept your premise that Pakistanis are not passive idiots but where is the beef on this assertion? May they are active fatalists? One thing is for sure; their pain threshold is the highest in the world.

    Pakistani47;

    I only wish I knew the answer to your question; I wouldn’t be sitting here writing comments, I would be sipping Earl Grey or Darjeeling with important dignitaries in a palace paid for the few tax payers of Pakistan. My worst fear is that it may be a catch-22 situation. Change is a function of awareness which is in turn a function of change. I hope I am wrong about it.

    SAK

    Punjabi is the only language I know, in which you can say it the way it is. I am sure others will say so about their own mother-tongues. Pakistanis think they are the only ones who live in a brick house in a world where everyone else dwells in a glass house. That is why it easier for us to throw stones at others. That is why there are a million explanations and excuses that miss the point and so we shoot arrows in all directions except the one that is the real cause of the great stink aka political stagnation.

    Pakistani awam has got a lot an explanation to do. At the moment viz a viz the next elections, they are like an underprepared candidate going in for their matriculation exams.

    Turkey’s emancipation from the clutches of the military has happened in tandem with economic growth. My point being when most Pakistanis are queuing up to get flour, sugar and fuel, do they have the time and inclination to get philosophical about their destiny?



  • @MG sb.

    "No comment on Turkey which is neither fish nor flesh nor good red herring and an ally of infamous NATO. But keep your worship alive, why not. It's only Muslims getting killed after all."

    You are demanding an overnight change from the Turkish leadership. Yes they are members of the NATO, but also look at the transformation they are going through. Bear in mind they are still in this phase of transforming the Turkish society. Turkey has tripled the BNP in a few years, their army is fast being put in place, the Israeli ambassador has been expelled.

    I think you will see a distancing to NATO in the future. I don't believe Turkey nor wants or can be a member of EU. I also see another alliance including Pakistan provided Pakistan can get out of the clutches of corrupt politicians, army and bureaucrats.



  • @stingingnettle

    My point is; can we ever take control of our destiny?

    Yes we can, the day when we all refuse to pay "Nashta Pani" for police wala.

    and socially boycott our own corrupt relatives who are working in Railways, Costumes, police WAPDA etc.

    That would be the start....



  • Expakistani

    Your write, '...Yes we can, the day when we all...'

    Your 'when' is a very big 'when' indeed. Do you think we are brave enough to refuse to pay 'Nasta Pani'?

    You reminded me of the time when I first applied for my driving license, they made me return eleven times to the collect my license because I refused to pay a bribe. On the eleventh occasion the clerk (aka devil's own spawn) flung it through the air on to the floor. My joy of having won against the forces of evil was short lived; I opened my license book to realise they had issued me a license for driving a car! To find out what happened next you will have to my book!

    On a more serious note; I agree with you that hard but good place to start would be by rejecting the corruption of our nearest and dearest. This is when we are at our hypocritical best.

    One thing you will perhaps agree with, there is little or no choice for us except change. That will be the beginning of the slow process of prising our destiny out of the fingers of the corrupt and unworthy.