Are we in trouble?
bsobaid last edited by
All the hul chul on political horizon lately was infact election campaign.
Establishment is up to some adventure again and they have prepared their horses.
Lets see if zardari can avert this crisis.
As i said in another post, the real issue is kyani,s preesure and threat to democratic government rather than haqqani,s letter.
so are u saying the memo is not true?
But if it is true then?
U stated democracy which one 45% jaali votes, influence of jageddar.
Is army to blame for corruption and law and order in country. Also is army to blame for PIA scandals and all the money that twion brothers have looted from the awam.?. The army have there shortcomings, however the corrupt parties are the reason for our downfall.
Who is establishment horse? If your reference is to Imran Khan, then I am afraid you have learn nothing during all the "education" you have had on Pkpolitics from the PTI members.
Secondly, Haqqani's letter is not his personal letter, it is what Zardari asked him to do, as the story goes. This is then a qualification for article 6.
I would not be surprised if Zardari does indeed harbour such intentions, becuase this is the same man who, as exposed in wikileaks, said that "collateral damage" - i.e., killing of innocent Pakistanis in drone strikes - is no concern for him.
This alone is grounds for treason.
You are reflecting a mentality that PMLN has been advocating all along - saving the crook Zardari in name of some concocted "threat" to democracy.
Nope. It is Zardari who is a threat to not only democracy but to the country itself.
There must be some constitutional way of dealing with such treason, if indeed Zardari had indulged in it.
The authenticity of the memo has been confirmed. No doubt about that now. The only ambiguity remains in this saga is to find the mastermind of this letter.
So far the ball is in Haqqani's court as he's under immense media scrutiny. Whether he spills all the beans and takes some heat off or else become a "shaheed" and save Zardari's neck has to be seen in the next few days and weeks to come.
TRANSCRIPTS OF THE MEMO SENT TO MIKE MULLEN
BRIEFING FOR ADM. MIKE MULLEN, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF
During the past 72 hours since a meeting was held between the president, the prime minister and the chief of army staff, there has seen a significant deterioration in Pakistan’s political atmosphere. Increasingly desperate efforts by the various agencies and factions within the government to find a home – ISI and/or Army, or the civilian government – for assigning blame over the UBL raid now dominate the tug of war between military and civilian sectors. Subsequent tit-for-tat reactions, including outing of the CIA station chief’s name in Islamabad by ISI officials, demonstrates a dangerous devolution of the ground situation in Islamabad where no central control appears to be in place.
Civilians cannot withstand much more of the hard pressure being delivered from the Army to succumb to wholesale changes. If civilians are forced from power, Pakistan becomes a sanctuary for UBL’s legacy and potentially the platform for far more rapid spread of al Qaeda’s brand of fanaticism and terror. A unique window of opportunity exists for the civilians to gain the upper hand over army and intelligence directorates due to their complicity in the UBL matter.
Request your direct intervention in conveying a strong, urgent and direct message to Gen Kayani that delivers Washington’s demand for him and Gen Pasha to end their brinkmanship aimed at bringing down the civilian apparatus – that this is a 1971 moment in Pakistan’s history. Should you be willing to do so, Washington’s political/military backing would result in a revamp of the civilian government that, while weak at the top echelon in terms of strategic direction and implementation (even though mandated by domestic political forces), in a wholesale manner replaces the national security adviser and other national security officials with trusted advisers that include ex-military and civilian leaders favorably viewed by Washington, each of whom have long and historical ties to the US military, political and intelligence communities. Names will be provided to you in a face-to-face meeting with the person delivering this message.
In the event Washington’s direct intervention behind the scenes can be secured through your personal communication with Kayani (he will likely listen only to you at this moment) to stand down the Pakistani military-intelligence establishment, the new national security team is prepared, with full backing of the civilian apparatus, to do the following:
President of Pakistan will order an independent inquiry into the allegations that Pakistan harbored and offered assistance to UBL and other senior Qaeda operatives. The White House can suggest names of independent investigators to populate the panel, along the lines of the bipartisan 9-11 Commission, for example
The inquiry will be accountable and independent, and result in findings of tangible value to the US government and the American people that identify with exacting detail those elements responsible for harboring and aiding UBL inside and close to the inner ring of influence in Pakistan’s Government (civilian, intelligence directorates and military). It is certain that the UBL Commission will result in immediate termination of active service officers in the appropriate government offices and agencies found responsible for complicity in assisting UBL.
The new national security team will implement a policy of either handing over those left in the leadership of Al Qaeda or other affiliated terrorist groups who are still on Pakistani soil, including Ayman Al Zawahiri, Mullah Omar and Sirajuddin Haqqani, or giving US military forces a “green light” to conduct the necessary operations to capture or kill them on Pakistani soil. This “carte blanche” guarantee is not without political risks, but should demonstrate the new group’s commitment to rooting out bad elements on our soil. This commitment has the backing of the top echelon on the civilian side of our house, and we will insure necessary collateral support.
One of the great fears of the military-intelligence establishment is that with your stealth capabilities to enter and exit Pakistani airspace at will, Pakistan’s nuclear assets are now legitimate targets. The new national security team is prepared, with full backing of the Pakistani government – initially civilian but eventually all three power centers – to develop an acceptable framework of discipline for the nuclear program. This effort was begun under the previous military regime, with acceptable results. We are prepared to reactivate those ideas and build on them in a way that brings Pakistan’s nuclear assets under a more verifiable, transparent regime.
The new national security team will eliminate Section S of the ISI charged with maintaining relations to the Taliban, Haqqani network, etc. This will dramatically improve relations with Afghanistan.
We are prepared to cooperate fully under the new national security team’s guidance with the Indian government on bringing all perpetrators of Pakistani origin to account for the 2008 Mumbai attacks, whether outside government or inside any part of the government, including its intelligence agencies. This includes handing over those against whom sufficient evidence exists of guilt to the Indian security services.
Pakistan faces a decision point of unprecedented importance. We, who believe in democratic governance and building a much better structural relationship in the region with India AND Afghanistan, seek US assistance to help us pigeon-hole the forces lined up against your interests and ours, including containment of certain elements inside our country that require appropriate re-sets and re-tasking in terms of direction and extent of responsibility after the UBL affair.
We submit this memorandum for your consideration collectively as the members of the new national security team who will be inducted by the President of Pakistan with your support in this undertaking.
So now based on this, the establishment have following cards in its hand,
they have "most popular" leader ready to be launched.
They have prepared the case for the nation to roll up the existing setup, i.e. send gillani and zardari home
and with the stage set, as corruption of politicians seems to be the only problem Pakistan have, IK lead govt shall be formed for a year (initially) the task of this CIVIL govt would be to clean the Paksitani politics from bad apples, aka NS and Zardari... and provide an open space for establishment to carry on their own game...
The Memo in this case have been the founding stone or an excuse.. which is now discussed when everything is ready.
what if the memo is true?
This post is deleted!
Memo true or not, PPP is elected govt. Establishment under no circumstance have got any right to over throw them and put on selected person calling them savior of the country. As a nation been that road and have suffered alot.
People of Pakistan have elected the govt, let them topple it... let them come on the road and ask the govt to resign and have new/fresh polls and ask the new govt to inquire the issue...
Establishment's task is to work under the govt and not to threat or throw it!!!
Memo is absolutely true and ISI knew it before 10th October when it was published in FT. The only thing they were not sure of was Zardati's hand in it. They kept their silence until Mansoor Ijaz's article came up in FT.
Remember Kayani only met Zardari once Mike Mullen confirmed receiving this memo and before his confirmation even the military establishment was doubtful of the authenticity of this memo.
PPP is elected govt? millions of millions of jaaali votes and jageddar influence.
So what should happen if true?
Dude if you have problems with the electoral system then that is your problem... same can be said about IK and his "Would-Be" candidates who are in process of dry-cleaning..
Thing is, people have elected them and only continuous process of election can filter the dirt out of the system... imposing select set of people only does more damage...
People have elected them?, millions of millions of fake votes.
So what should happen if memo true?
Apart from legal issues with the fake elections of 2008, which were done on corrupted voter lists and judiciary in house arrest, even if we consider it a genuine or legal mandate that the PPP government supposedly has, this memo, if true, is a treason against the state of Pakistan.
As I said there has be a legal way to deal with it if this is true. The case is government trying to weaken the state. Tt is a very serious case, but Supreme Court has to deal with it, and if memo involves Zardari, he should be ousted, persecuted, and punished with this corrupt and incompetent government sent home through the orders of the Supreme Court. If your prime minister, for example, turns out to be a traitor, how do you deal with this situation? There must be a way.
In emergency circumstances SC can summon the army to implement its decisions in case the government does not follow suit.
No way the government can remain as it is if the memo is true and if it involves Zardari. This is not a matter of corruption and incompetency, but treason.
As for any interim setup, SC, rahter than the army, should set it up.
And BTW, rather than lying shamelessly about somebody, you should inform. Imran Khan has said explicitly on the latest Capital Talk show in which he appeared, in a reply to a question asked by Nazir Naji, that he will never be part of any interim setup or interim government.
If SC summons Army and Army comply then that is different deal, that means that both sides have been heard and decision is not taken by just a person to do whatever he thinks...
Yes, PTI has taken the stance that Supreme Court should take a suo motto on this issue and investigate it. In case, the government is found guilty at the highest level, then what I have stated would have to be done.
Unlike the incompetent leader of PMLN who again demanded a "commission" to be set up by the same people who are indicted in this issue (the government!). With the performance of "commissions" in the past, he only went as far as to call it a "committee".
This episode again shows what an incompetent person NS is.
It is clear NS is again trying to save Zardari's backside.
@ Change IK,
Why Suo-Motto, why not PTI file a case against GOVT? what is stopping them
and what NS did is right, he have said that No to non-constitutional way to topple the govt.. ofcourse he is confident that he have enough backing of people of Pakistan that he can bring down the govt by creating pressure... unlike many others who are depending on Gen Pasha and Kiyani to make them the PM, as already predicted by Haroon Ur Rasheed, the mentor of PTI..
And please do tell me if the not the people of Pakistan then who should be in the commission, should NS follow IK and ask EU to send members to ensure that investigation is being done right?
If Pindi walas have make up their mind, no one can save Zardari's back side.