Kargil adventure was four-man show: general
bechari-awam last edited by
All these generals should be court-marshaled and hanged in public for causing irreparable harm they did to the country and its military. We still don't know how many men are buried in the snow up there. Hopefully once NS is in power, his first order will be to form a judicial commission to investigate and formally lay charges of treason on these generals who were acting in complete disregard to a legitimate civilian govt.
"ISLAMABAD: The men who witnessed the Kargil fiasco continue to spill the beans. Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz, a former chief of general staff of Pakistan Army who has till now kept his peace about what he witnessed in the summer of ’99, says the ‘misadventure’ was a four-man show the details of which were hidden from the rest of the military commanders initially.
This is the first time someone this senior in the military hierarchy of the time has spoken in such detail and with such frankness about the fiasco that was Kargil.
According to him, initially the Kargil operation was known only to Gen Pervez Musharraf, chief of general staff Lt Gen Mohammad Aziz, FCNA (Force Command Northern Areas) commander Lt Gen Javed Hassan and 10-Corps commander Lt Gen Mahmud Ahmad.
The majority of corps commanders and principal staff officers were kept in the dark, says Gen Aziz. “Even the-then director general military operations (DGMO) Lt Gen Tauqir Zia came to know about it later,” says Gen Aziz who at the time was serving as director general of the analysis wing of Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI).
He said that Gen Musharraf worked on a policy of “need to know” throughout his tenure as COAS and later president — in other words, Musharraf would issue orders to only those who were required to implement orders instead of first consulting corps commanders and other military officers.
The Kargil operation began in the summer of 1999 when Pakistani soldiers infiltrated into positions on the Indian side of the Line of Control.
The infiltration, which managed to cut off Indian supply lines, took New Delhi by surprise.
Initially, Islamabad claimed that the infiltrators were mujahideen but it could not maintain this façade for long. The Indian response coupled with international pressure forced the Pakistan military to withdraw.
However, the aftermath of the operation served to heighten tensions between Gen Musharraf and then prime minister Nawaz Sharif which culminated in the October coup when the military removed the elected government and took over.
‘Operation was never planned’
“The Pakistan Army did not plan the operation because Gen Musharraf never saw Kargil as a major operation. Only the FCNA was involved in it and perhaps a section of 10-Corps,” says Aziz, adding that it was a major intelligence failure for India. More details of the operation are expected in Gen Aziz’s book which is hitting the bookshelves next week.
“It was a miscalculated move,” he says when asked about the operation, adding that “its objectives were not clear and its ramifications were not properly evaluated”.
At his picturesque farmhouse in Pind Begwal in the foothills of Murree, about 30km from the capital, Gen Aziz was not averse to speaking frankly about the operation.
“It was a failure because we had to hide its objectives and results from our own people and the nation. It had no purpose, no planning and nobody knows even today how many soldiers lost their lives.”
He said he was personally not aware of what information had been shared with then prime minister Nawaz Sharif, but he felt that Mr Sharif “was not fully in the picture”.
He, however, recalls a general telling him that Nawaz Sharif asked “when are you giving us Kashmir?” during an informal discussion. This suggests, says Gen Aziz, that Mr Sharif was not completely in the dark.
Gen Aziz himself first discovered that something was up when he came across wireless communication intercepts from which he could tell that something was making the Indian forces panic.
“The intercepts worried me as I thought we were not aware of whatever was unsettling the Indians. I deputed two officers to figure out what was happening.” The next day’s wireless intercepts were clear enough for Gen Aziz to realise that the Indians’ anxiety stemmed from the fact that someone from Pakistan had captured some areas in Kargil-Drass sector but it was not clear if they were mujahideen or regular troops. “I took these intercepts to then ISI director general Lt Gen Ziauddin Butt and asked what was happening.”
It was then that Gen Aziz was finally told by Gen Butt that the army had captured some area in Kargil.
This, says Gen Aziz, was not right. In his opinion, he should have been told about the proposed operation in advance so that he could have provided his analysis in advance.
A day after this conversation between Aziz and Butt, the latter called Gen Aziz and told him that he had been invited to the General Headquarters for a briefing on Kargil.
During the briefing, which was also attended by all the principal staff officers, Director General Military Operations Lt Gen Tauqir Zia explained that units of NLI (Northern Light Infantry) and regular troops had captured areas in the Drass-Kargil sector.
Aziz feels that even though the briefing was conducted by DGMO Tauqir Zia, it was clear that he had not been aware of the operation from the beginning.
The day after the DGMO briefing, the friction at Kargil operation was reported in the Pakistani media; interestingly, the Indian media had carried stories a day earlier.
This shows that the military leadership was informed about such a critical operation only after it began and by that time information was trickling down to the media.
At the briefing, Gen Zia did explain the ‘objectives’ of the operation — it had cut off India’s supply lines to Siachen because of the closure of Zojila Pass on Srinagar-Drass-Kargil-Leh road.
This, said Gen Zia, would block India from supplying its troops in Siachen and subsequently, India would evacuate Siachen. That this did not happen is now history.
Gen Aziz says this was because the planners “miscalculated the Indian response and overall repercussions”.
At the briefing, Gen Tauqir Zia talked about airing pre-recorded Pashto messages that he hoped would be intercepted by the Indian forces.
His objective was that these intercepts would fool India into thinking that the Afghan mujahideen had occupied areas in Kargil.
Gen Aziz says he objected to this plan as “these would get exposed very shortly”. He adds that this led to lengthy discussions and finally Tauqir Zia conceded that the truth could not be hidden for long.
In retrospect, Gen Aziz feels that “even if only NLI men were up there, it would be wrong to suggest that the operation was carried out by paramilitary forces because NLI falls under the military chain of command unlike the Rangers that are headed by a military officer but technically they fall under the control of the ministry of interior”.
The study that never was
But for Gen Aziz the end of the operation did not mean the end of the matter.
After he was promoted as chief of general staff, he says that in 2004 he ordered a small study to inquire into what miscalculations had led to
such a huge loss of men and money. He also asked each battalion concerned for details.
But the reaction was swift.
An angry Gen Musharraf called him and asked what the objectives of the study were. “I told him it would provide a professional understanding of our mistakes and losses but Gen Musharraf insisted that this was not the time for such a study and ordered that it be stopped."
Thanks for putting details and opening this thread. Such a shame that only 1 person (Musharaf) along with three others changed the fate of a nation of 18 crore. Just think if democracy were not derailed and there were a democratic government during 9/11 will a democratic prime-minister afford to bend down on just one call from Bush. Things would have been so different in Pakistan now.
makram-1 last edited by
This thing and affairs of 1971 all indicates, that some thing is very critically wrong with the system and working of Defense forces of Pakistan.
ashrafr last edited by
The poor Pakistani people have been fed lies and more lies by the military for 65 years. They eat up Pakistan's finances and give little in return. They live like kings while the people suffer.
sweettruth last edited by
They are property dealers instead of a professional army. A professioal army is one without side businesses.
khanamer last edited by
BTW, any news on the assets of these four generals?
sweettruth last edited by
I can bet their assests are bigger than Veena Malik.
khanamer last edited by
Veena Malik ain't got anything, she is getting fame because 1) in Pakistan because she is in India and 2) in India because she is from Pakistan and showing her skin...
But i Do know Mushy have enormous amount of wealth, i think it is been given to him to destroy Pakistan...
jikram last edited by
It is interesting to learn that most of the Military Generals and Judges, speak the truth after retirement.
Mr. Justice Naseem Hasan Shah exposed the conspiracy about judicial murder of Z.A. Bhutto, after his retirement.
Now, Lt Gen (retd) Shahid Aziz, came up with the real designs of Military Establishment.
Timing of this exposure is very crucial.
"It is interesting to learn that most of the Military Generals and Judges, speak the truth after retirement."
It is a pity that Primary School Teachers don't speak the truth even after retirement!!
Shirazi1 last edited by
"He, however, recalls a general telling him that Nawaz Sharif asked “when are you giving us Kashmir?” during an informal discussion."
And that gives Gen. Aziz hunch that Nawaz Sharif knew about Kargil. I casually asked this very question to those who live and die by Kashmir 'cause'. This doesn't tell much. Also, later he said goal of Kargil was to get Saichen back but Nawaz Sharif asked Musharaaf when are you getting Kashmir for us? I am not surprised Gen Aziz ordered inquiry of Kargil in 2004, the time when Musharaaf was ready to show him the door. All the patriotism revives in these Generals after retirement.
I think Kargil real agenda was to occupy Kashmir through Kargil route and Nawaz Sharif was briefed when action was already taken. Nawaz Sharif was not briefed complete outcomes if this mission fails otherwise a political prime minister will not put a axe on his foot. Nawaz Sharif saved the face of army and Musharraf by dealing with Clinton but he was very angry with his army chief later causing his government to topple by him.
jikram last edited by
Derailed persons like you cannot digest the Truth.
They start spitting venom of fanaticism just after a 0.5 mg doze.
Why is it that you go bonhers just before and after 12'0'clock?
There is one another bitter truth. In 1965 Pakistan got war equipment and air crafts on the condition that they will not use it against any other country except the Russia (USSR) during cold war era. Our army started a Kargil like campaign in Kashmir and caused India to attack Pakistan through eastern borders. War on control line was started by Pakistan not India, this fact was told us wrong since our childhood.
Kashmir was and is internationally recongnised as disputed area.
Pakistan's action was in a disputed area. India invaded an area internationally known as Pakistan. There is a huge difference.
You were told the truth in your childhood. You need to update your knowlede.
Can you launch a large scale Kargil like campaign in disputed area? If Pakistan were not a atomic power I am sure there would have been another war between Indian and Pakistan after Kargil. Yes Pakistan violated disputed area border and India started full scale war on international border but India is justified in saying "Pahley panga kine laya si"
Can you launch a large scale Kargil like campaign in disputed area?
Read my post again which refers to your childhood reference of 1965 action in Kashmir and not Kargill. I was merely pointing out that you cannot say Pakistan attached India. Pakistan took action in Kashmir (disputed territory) and in return India attached Pakistan. There is a huge difference but not difficult to understand.
mhansari last edited by
Lt. General (r) Shahid Aziz where have you been sleeping all those years since Kargil?
What a timing to make the disclosures. Your effort will not help your political sponsors.
Whose agenda are you trying to follow now by putting blames on your own uniformed colleagues? If you had so much concern about Kargil, wasn't it your moral obligation to resign and record your protest at that time.
You enjoyed full term of service, took all the benefits including pension and now trying to tell us you are a patriot and were unaware of Kargil? If anything was good at that time you all share it general. If it was bad and you stayed there..you share the blame and responsibility.
I wonder what you people think of us bluddy-civilians. Are we fools? No general, no Pakistani will accept this non-sense. Kargil was good or bad, you too are responsible and were part of it and cannot be given a clean chit to you or anyone else who didn't resign in protest, at that time.
You and some other (r) generals like Mr. Butt who are trying to second you, are openly playing politics. You were not honest with your job, and, with the uniformed men you spent your whole life. You were dishonest then, and you are the same now.
You words bear no moral or ethical value.
I wholeheartedly agree with your views and sentiments.