Its Aligarh vs Darul Uloom Deoband



  • I see many threads in which people say that zia's legacy has left us with terrorism to which i disagree and i am no supporter of Martial Law but i tihnk Zia ul Haq was the only military ruler who if had became a civilian leader would have been the most popular primarily because what he did was the wish of the people of pakistan.

    I am in no mood of going into debate whether zia used islam for his rule but infact what he did was the natural reaction of bhutto's legace to turn pakistan into a nationalist socialist state which is against the ideology of pakistan.

    After these initial comments the real purpose of thread is to enlighten all some people here that their are primarily two kind of education system in pakistan and both if traced back are linked to Ali garh ideology vs Darul Uloom Deoband Philosphy.

    Ali Garh Ideology was of a defeatist nature i.e East India Company has successfully captured you , you must not fight them , must adopt british culture and language to prosper or else face the consequences of hindu's flourishing because they are not fighting british.

    Even muslim league founders were alligned to pholosphy of Sir Syed Ahmed Khan who can be called Ata Turk of our nation because an Ata Turk is needed where a population is ideologically strong , culturally significant so to channel their powers into ultimate slavery these people are helpfull.

    Where as Darul Uloom Deoband founded by Maulana Qasim Nanotvi primarily to protect our Religious beliefs , protect muslims faith and to keep teaching them their own history and their own true worth and to produce top Ulema's.

    Darul Uloom Deoband gave birth to many prominent tehreeks such as Tableeghi jamat, Majlid e Ahraar , Khaksar Tehreek and many top scholars such as Sheikh Ul Hind Maulana Mehmood Ul Hassan , Maulana Shabbir Usmani , Mufti Muhammad Shafi , Maulana Anwar Shah Kashmiri , Maulana Ahmed Ali Lahori , Ameer Shariat Atta ullah shah bukhari.

    These people are the real symbol,image and face of muslims of subcontinent.

    Now , Mullah Hating Immigrants of our nations primarily belong to Ali Garh Philosphy woh have been tamed into British Slaves and have World Bank , Asian Development Bank, US Aid investing in their education system such as O-A level , senior cambridge and junior cambridge and naturally they have been prepared to be in allign with foreign culture and ideology so thay hate pakistan and they hate Mullahs and these are the ones saying Quaid E Azam was secular.

    Apart from all this a bit in complete history because this is a long topic i feel this is a war between Ali Garh and Darul Uloom Deoband pholosphy and all our debates that happen here mostly have this conflict sub consciously



  • Pkpolitics has finally got zaid hamid of its own.



  • @sarbanikhan

    Which school "Taliban Philosophy" belongs to?



  • @Ghost Protocol

    By your statment its clearly evident that you have no clue what zaid hamid says and also you dunt have a clue what i am saying



  • @sipahi

    Brother i have few questions for you first:

    1. Why are you asking me about taliban when its a phenomenon in afghanistan? My writing was in regard to polarization of education and way of thinking in our country

    2. Secondly Who do you think are the taliban by the way? as i am confused Taliban's literal meaning is Students , in general it is referred to Afghan Revolution headed by taliban in which they fought war lords and ended years long civil war.

    I am confused because Afghan Taliban Philosophy is pretty evident and clear.



  • @Ghost Protocol

    To make further clarification Zaid Hamid was follower of a person who claimed to be prophet Nauzubillah and is a crackhead and has appeal among military establishment circles because he is unofficial spokesman or to clarify in political terms he is zulfiqar mirza of establishment :)



  • Ali Gargh vs. Deo band????

    You mean forces like Deo Band who were against the idea of creation of Pakistan vs. Ali Gargh, the institution which provided the very much intellectual back bone for the formation of Pakistan.

    And today, same Deo band mentality trying to hijack Pakistan, country they oppose to begin with.



  • @Dusky

    So you agree that conflicts are based on these two school of thoughts , i wouldnt comment on your statements regarding intellectual backbone and formation of pakistan , clearly you need to have some history lessons



  • @sarbanikhan:

    So you accept Deo band is the root of "fasad", they were against the formation of Pakistan and now trying to destabilize Pakistan by imposing their minority ideology on majority Pakistan.

    By the way I am all ear for "that" history lesson ;)



  • DeoBand is the root of KNowledge wisdom and protecting the relegious sanctity in sub continents.

    Regarding history lesson their are some pre requisites and clearly the poison you have for Islamic Scholars and Islamic Institutions you seem lacking a few



  • @sarbanikhan

    "Why are you asking me about taliban when its a phenomenon in afghanistan?"

    Who are those who call themselves TTP and Maulana F. led an APC to have a dialogue with? Are they part of Deoband School?



  • Deoband was "fasad" for Qadianis through Majlis e Tahaffuz e Khatme Nabuwat , fasad for Pervaziat Munkir of Hadith , Fasad for Todies(As Atta Ullah Shah Bukhari used to call them) british slaves , Fasad for all other anti islamic movements

    Regarding your statement that deoband was against formation of pakistan , to tell you a free history lesson Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi R.A and mufti Muhammad Shafi(Father of Mufti Taqi Usmani and Mufti Rafi Usmani) were strong supporters of pakistan movements.

    Again i re iterate my point in the thread is not creation in pakistan but Philosphy of Ali Garh vs Darul Uloom Deoband Philospohy

    One Institution asked muslim to accept british as their lawfull masters, learn english , accept jobs in beurecracy/civil service,accept jobs in british army to strengthen their colonilism and the other vowed to fight on knowledge front , fight all the british supporters among muslims and protect the ideology of Muslims



  • World is clearly experience what kind of "Knowledge and Wisdom" Deo Band is spreading around from Afghanistan to Libya and in between. Before formation of Pakistan they were local, now they are gone global.

    If the pre requisites are intolerance, self centerness, self righteousness and imposition of your ideology on others. Then I am definitely lacking them.



  • @sarbanikhan:

    "One Institution asked muslim to accept british as their lawfull masters"

    Show me one credible reference for the statement you made about Ali Gargh and I will end this debate right here.



  • @sipahi

    I lack basic knowledge about who TTP are , though i know they belong to deoband school of thought but they cannot be called the face of deoband.

    Regarding their fight with our army and their "fasad" in waziristan and suicide attacks can you enlighten me why and against whom they are fighting?

    Because the only book i read about war in waziristan was by a journalist who is no more and he presents a very confused picture in our tribal belt , some are criminals some are smugglers some want money for allowing safe passage to NATO , i dunnot see an ideological battle in our tribal belt but again you might have some concrete info to enlighten me and yeah i have seen all the suicide bomber videos and their stance about pakistan army and pakistan



  • @dusky

    Its very open and you can research yourself that Sir Syed Ahmed Khan clearly asked muslim to lay down arms against british and concentrate on education , when i am talking about ali garh it was a product of that ideology.

    One of many quotes of Sir Syed Ahmed khan in support of the british rule and advising muslims to rather turn their directoin towards learning the way of british

    "Muslims were living in peace under their government. In no way could they undertake jihad against the government."

    (Asbab Baghawat-i Hind, i.e. `Causes of the Indian Mutiny', p. 105)



  • "though i know they belong to deoband school of thought but they cannot be called the face of deoband."

    Have they distorted that face? Do you condemn their killing of innocent people, who do not follow their brand of religion? Why Fazlul-Rehman does not condemn their killing of innocent?



  • Ali Garh Ideology was of a defeatist nature i.e East India Company has successfully captured you , you must not fight them , must adopt british culture and language to prosper or else face the consequences of hindu's flourishing because they are not fighting british.


    Baloney!

    Sir Syed was one of the great benefactors of Muslims.He wanted Muslims to get education so that they can compete against the Hindus..

    Maulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar also went to Aligarh and later started the Khilafat Movement and was the biggest headache for the Brits.



  • @sipahi

    I strongly condemn their killing of innocent people and that's totally against the teachings of islam and any madrassah. Beheading of innocent people in the name of Islam is a highly deplorable act , kidnapping for ransom all are heinous deeds.



  • @zia m

    Maulana Muhammad ali johar was part of hilafat movement alongwith deoband ulema , so you are saying that ali garh institute produced graduates to fight against the british?

    I am talking about vision and ideology behind institution not about personalities who may later change their opinion , did ali garh university teachings caused maulana muhammad ali johar to be part of khilafat movement who had deoband ulema and also congress party part of it.

    Maulana Muhammad Ali johar wanted a violent struggle against british which is i am dead sure not the ideology he adopted in ali garh