Turkey - Russia skirmish



  • Everyone is wondering if a minor space violation by a Russian jet was serious enough to warrant such a harsh response from Turkey.

    The fact is that Turkish government was frustrated by a Russian onslaught on the Syrian rebels back by Turkey. There are thousands of Turkmen on the Syrian side of the border who have lived there for centuries and hold a very close bond with Turkey. They were being attacked by the Russian jets on a daily bases, and Turkey felt obligated to protect them.

    Since the downing of the Russian jet, Turkey's response has softened everyday. On day one, they said that Russian jet violated Turkey's air space and deserved that fate. The following day, Turkish government announced that they didn't know if it was a Russian jet. After a few hours they said they might have acted differently had they known it was a Russian jet.

    Today, President Erdogan of Turkey said that Turkey is saddened by the indecent and wish it had not happened.

    With all this back-paddling, Erdogan is also requesting a meeting with Putin to settle this issue. So far, Putin hasn't returned Erdogan's calls. According to Moscow, Putin will only hold a meeting with Erdogan after an unconditional apology from Turkey and an announcement of a compensation for the dead pilots.

    It doesn't look like Turkey is willing to go that far.

    What people say about Putin is that he never forgets and he never forgives. Today, Russia announced its first set of sanctions against Turkey, a major trading partner of Russia. Russia has already announced moving its anti aircraft equipment and missile defense system near the Syrian-Turkish border. Another Russian aircraft carrier is already on its way to the region to bring a new set of fighter jets. Apparently, things are heating up.

    That reminds me of Imran Khan's silly announcement that he, as PM, would order to shoot down American drones in FATA. It's not the downing of the drone that is difficult, it's the consequences.

    Sure, Turkey is not Pakistan and Russia is not United States but still Russia is not a country to be messed with.

    It's true that Turkey is a NATO member and all other NATO members including US are supposed to protect Turkey in case of a war but it's hard to imagine how the situation will play out in case of a full scale war.

    These are some of the things that could take place if the tension between the two countries keep rising...

    Economic sanctions will hurt Turkey more than the Russians.

    Putin will bomb the heck out of Turkmen along the Syrian-Turkish border.

    If an opportunity arises, Russians can target a Turkish plane to level the score.

    Turkey has lots of F-16s but I still don't think that Turkey is any match for Russian air power.

    Unlike Pakistani and Indians, who mostly have slave mentality, both Turks and Russians are proud people. Both possess a history to be proud of. If Putin doesn't do anything, it'll play out very badly for him at home. Erdogan is equally stubborn and I don't see him apologizing either.

    It'll be interesting to see how Russia, once a mighty power, handles this public ignominy.

    11/28/2015



  • طیارہ مار گرانے کا واقعہ نہیں بھول سکتے اس کیلئے ترکی کو باربارپچھتانا ہوگا، صدر پیوٹن

    http://www.express.pk/story/412597/



  • Turkey did exactly what they wanted, because Russia was hitting the nerve center of Erdogan guys who are in training in Syria to become full fledged Daesh troopers. Turkey knew that NATO will back them to do any thing.

    When will west realize that real axis of evil is KSA, Qatar and Turkey!

    The philosophy, funding, weapons, terrorists, etc come from these countries.



  • "When will west realize that real axis of evil is KSA, Qatar and Turkey!"

    O'West

    When will you take notice of this Phobia Sufferer? Please take pity!!



  • Issue here is not just Turkey, KSA or Qatar. Yes they are the "Visible" participent of this new "Cold war" but they are not the real culprit. NATO is the real enemy here especially the west. Turkey is training ground of these rebels at the behest of her western masters. Same old game just new players



  • @curiousity jee

    I wouldn't lump Turkey as part of axis of evil. Turkey is a democracy and Edogan has won elections after elections. This can't be said about Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or other middle eastern states where kings are forever.

    I'm afraid your sympathies for Bashar-Al-Asad regime is clouding your judgement. The struggle against Asad wasn't triggered by Turkey or the West. The movement started as part of the so-called Arab spring. I agree that it was wrong of West to support rebels because ISIS emerged from a vacuum. There is a very strong debate at least in US to not topple any secular dictator in future because it would go from bad to worse. But hindsight is always 20/20.

    Asad only controls 30 percent of Syria. His days are numbered. He is extending his reign a bit with the help of Russians but can never get back to the position he held before the whole mess started.



  • @Qarar Jee,

    So you believe that just because Erdogan came through elections, he is no issue.

    Let me first remind that Hitler also came to top via democratic election.

    Aren't the following verses from Erdogan and what drove him to power?

    **

    "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers... "**


    Erdogan

    Do you really think, he has changed.

    As a practicing Muslim I condemn the above quoted verses, do you ?

    These verses are completely contradictory to the message of Islam.

    Don't the verses profess the same philosophy used by terrorists?

    Why world leaders even sit with Erdogan who professes as per this poem.

    By the way, I have no love for Asad. I just say use the methods employed in South Africa rather than arming good rebels, since good rebel does not exists who is using guns to kill.



  • "As a practicing Muslim I condemn the above quoted verses, do you ?"

    He is not even a Muslim, let alone a practising one. What he said on another thread is reproduced so that you can feast your eyes!


    میڈیا میں خبریں آرہی ہیں کہ سید فاروق نے دو سال پہلے حج کا ارادہ کیا ...اور وہاں ایک پاکستانی نژاد لڑکی سے شادی کرکے واپسی اختیار کی .....حج کے دوران ایک بلڈنگ کے گرد بے تکے پھیرے لگانے کے بارے میں تو سنا تھا مگر گمان نہ تھا کہ اس مقدس مقام میں عشق مٹکا کرکے ایک عورت کے ساتھ سات پھیرے بھی لگائے جاسکتے ہیں




  • Poor soul erdogen doesnot know.. domes are symbols of boobs and minarates are di3ks and faithful soldiers wants pussi3s booty of war... mosques are not barraks but uthak baitks where mulaa rape children

    Long ago men and women meet in special places where they fullfill their desirez

    .. with the passage of time..when tyrants rules they destroy these special places.. men try to iconize these places with special parts of men and women as a protest.. later these part become holly and now these part are so holly that no one can touch in eastren culures.. so people masturebate in mosques



  • @curiousity jee

    You are taking this poem way seriously. Have you read Allama Iqbal's poetry? Are you going to condemn that as well?

    When I said Turkey is a democracy, I wanted to compare Erdogan with Asad and King Salman. I'm sure you see the difference. Hitler came to power on basis of a popular vote but don't forget that he then banned elections.

    In order for a South Africa type solution, one has to be willing to give up power. The white president F W De Klerk gave up his presidency to end racial discrimination. It didn't happen because of sanctions. Do you see Asad giving up power for peace ever?



  • @Qarar Jee

    "In order for a South Africa type solution, one has to be willing to give up power. The white president F W De Klerk gave up his presidency to end racial discrimination. It didn't happen because of sanctions. "

    You must not be born when sanctions started.

    It took complete boycott, which lasted for 30 years before the power was relinquished. No one was willing to give up power in SA before complete boycott by public of all corporations which did any trade with SA.



  • @Qarar Jee

    "You are taking this poem way seriously. Have you read Allama Iqbal's poetry? Are you going to condemn that as well?"

    Please provide me reference of poetry by Allama equating Mosques as training ground for militancy, as being referred in the quoted verses forming Erdagon background. Mosques in Islam are for education, morals and ethics to interact with Creator and fellow human beings.



  • "Mosques in Islam are for education, morals and ethics to interact with Creator and fellow human beings."

    Not when Mosques are no longer called Mosques and instead are called Imambargahs!!



  • Mosques and Imambaraghs are both places of learning in Fiqh e Jafria. Purpose of both In Islam is for education, morals and ethics based on Holy Quran and Hadith of Prophet of Islam how to interact with the Creator and fellow human beings.

    Mosques require a level of Taharat, not necessary for Imambargah. Say for example, woman during menstrual period cannot enter a mosque, but she can enter Imambargah thus ensuring that she is not deprived of opportunity to learn even during that time. Same is true for others who are not necessarily clean to go in a Mosque.



  • So, why call it Imambargah? It can still be called a mosque and unclean people can still be allowed!

    Mosque means = a place of worship = where one worships God

    Imambargah = Imam's place = Where one worships Who?



  • All Muslims worship only the Creator, Allah SWT.

    Worship of Allah SWT can be at home, workplace, open public place, in a Mosque or in an Imambargah or any community center.



  • Why go to Imambargah to worship God and not a Mosque? Why call it Imambargah when it is a Mosque (Masjid) as mentioned in the Quran?



  • @curiousity jee

    The duration of sanctions against South Africa, 30 years, clearly show how effective they were. The white minority could have easily ruled for another 30. The politicians like Klerk realized that it was not way to move forward and corrected a historic wrong. Dictators like Asad only care about their rule, he won't step aside to save his country.



  • Do you know that Mosque belongs to Allah SWT.

    They cannot be built on loans or borrowed money.



  • شہادت ہے مطلوب مقصود مومن

    نہ مال غنیمت نہ کشور کشائی

    When Iqbal praises martyrdom, that is a clear support for a militant Islam. His hawkish poetry is all about Mard-e-momin and shahadat.

    Today's Faisal Shahzads, Syed Farooqs and Tasfeen Maliks take that dream of Iqbal and convert that into a reality. As Iqbal said, Martyrdom is the ultimate goal, not the leisurely things of this life.

    Mr. Shirazi shared a good column the other day, it's time to revisit that.

    Why Sir Syed loses and Allama Iqbal wins in Pakistan

    http://tribune.com.pk/story/504576/why-sir-syed-loses-and-allama-iqbal-wins-in-pakistan/