Media ,Murder and BB?
BB could have settled outside too and enjoy a luxurious life .why do u think she put her life on stake and got murdered here .she could have been out like iltaf hussain too but if u know lil bit about her she never wanted to stay away from pakistan .
AQ is my hero too but u got to weigh all the pros and cons before being judgmental .tell me one person who will be ready to take a risk just like she did .anyways as i told u i was never supportive of her policies still i think she deserved the covarage media gave her .
noone is forcing u to call her shaheed her shaheed but again i m repeating u should not object if someone is calling her that ,here u and i agree but we are just going in circles to prove our point .lol
beena sis about media ,ill stick to my point that it was badly needed to show solidarity with sindh if u cant comprehend this simple thing than i cannot force u .
u r so sweet adn innocent dear sis...
everybody knows why she came to pakistan ...just to seek power.
Kursi was the Chara ,that has been used to trap her by the agencies or whoever killed her.
u r right !
she cant live without pakistan...
any other country in this world wont allow her to make money like this!
beenai sis lol
im not so niave as u think nor i was born yesterday dear sis
i know exactly why she came to pakistan but here we are not discussing why she came .tell me who is not after "kursee" lol
thats entirely different issue and i dont disagree with u on that but if u read my posts carefully about media role ill still beg to differ with u there .
Pakistan is the world's richest country to make money?
All the 'corrupt' and 'power hungry' politicians from other countries should join PPP, PML, JUI, JI, TI or Pakistan Military and try their luck in Pakistan to make money.
Come on before it is too late! They will loose nothing but their lives.
Beautiful. What logic?
Now there is hope that, the wonderful scholars could turn the future of Pakistan very 'bright'.
Pakistan is a very poor country but fortnately we are having such a devoted politicians/leaders who are dying only for us. No wonder thats the reason of our fast development.
1. It was not A.Q Khan only. There were 23 other scientists.
2. It was only A.Q.Khan's network to sell the Blue Print and make money.
3. The Pioneer of Nuclear Technology in Pakistan Dr. Abdul-Salam was discarded as an 'Infidel'.
4. The leader (Z.A. Bhutto) who consolidated the policy and managed for the funds for Nuclear Bomb from Arab and Muslim countries, was hanged till death.
5. So many 'Sultan Tipus' and 'Rani's of Jhansi' came at this forum with a strong desire to get rid of Musharraf shouting â€˜go musharaf goâ€™.
6. When the light at the end of the tunnel was visible, through a 'Deal with the Devil', they could not visualize, interpret and understand the strategy, tactics and diplomacy of BB. (NS got the hidden message later and decided to support BB)
7. â€˜Go musharaf goâ€™ was replaced by â€˜deal, dealâ€™ deal, corruption, corruption, corruptionâ€™.
7. When the motives of the 'Deal' were revealed the, Establishment had no other choice but to kill her.
8. The 'nation' missed the train and will stay at the same platform waiting for the Master without â€˜Uniform.
Very unfortunate 'nation'.
irfanx last edited by
The set of morals we follow in our common life comes from islam and in islam even if some ones dies in an accident he or she is a "shaheed". Keeping that in mind youo can decide if she was a shaheed or not.
I agree with Javedhsiekh none of us understood why BB came to Pakistan she came in a very political way agreeing with Mushraaf and then disagreeing with him later on bit by bit. I also agree with Javed shiekh that Pakistan is not that worthy or a goldmine for some one like BB to risk her life to loot it.
Now she came for power we all know that. Who would you choose BB or Mush in power. If your answer is Musharraf then i would say army always ruled pakistan directly (dictators) or indirectly (through BB and nawaz). When BB was in power it was not only her she had a bit of the power so if pakistan was corrupt or propogated corrupt it was establishments intention to make us realise we coannot run a country so Mush came even i supported him . Because we the new generation was not taught history taht Zia was a dicttator and dicttaors are BAD.
Now ill give you a solution like Imran Khan said politics need evolution. First we will chose the best we have and that might not be good enough like BB or nawaz then after a while we will realise and we will start choosing new faces and new leaders its gonna take time but the problem is establishment will stop this evolutionary process and come in power and we have to start with these bad choices again. SO i believe we need to go through this process.
SO for this process i am ready to say her a shaheed at least its a slap on the face of estbalishment.
whats your solution to politics in pakistan?
i toatally agree with javed and irfanx here
im sure BB came to her senses right after the first bomb blast in karachi on her return about the real intention of not only mush but of usa too , she tried to facilitate her return by cracking a deal with mush and asked usa to force him ,im sure she too realized that she still cannot arm twist mush and the establishment.mush who was totally against her later on made to chew his words by allowing her return by a deal but it would be foolish to think he did it happily he was also forced by usa .
on her death the few words uttered by bush showed clearly that BB was not really getting along with USA and things were not as hunkydory as it seemed .even in her last address she without naming said bluntly " wo kehtay hain hum is mulik ko nehi sunbhal saktay magar wo ghulat kehtay hain .ap sunbhaly gay main sunbhaloo gee " .
she thought she could not come in pakistan by threating and holding gun on mushs temple she realized that the only way she could come to power was to manipulate mush by involving USA but her optimistic approach landed her in her grave now coz she was foolish not only to trust usa but to trust mush too .
she and nawaz did agree on something thats why nawaz supported her ,she knew it once she will come into power she will take care of mush but she was utterly wrong and surely she underestimated both mush and bush .
and our country needs time to bring new faces but im willing to support NS or anyother if ill be told that i can get rid of bigger evil mush .
irfan bhai ,
i can understand what are you trying to say but the matter of the fact is that if i can take your defiantion
if someone dies in accident he or she is shaheed ...
if i can take it ...that means a suiside bomber is shaheed.who killed many innocent lives.
that means a killer,history sheeter,docoit can be shaheed if he meet an unfortunate death he or she would be called shaheed.
that means Saed Akbar was shaheed too,who was a kraiye ka qatil and murdered our first PM Liaqat Ali Khan.coz after that killer killed himself.
i dont think that could be a criteria to begin with .
nobody can force me to think that some one is shaheed ,untill or unless my mind and my heart agreed to believe in it.
ya beena sis
so let go of this shaheed thing now lol noone can force u and u cant force others too "to each his own"
Aisha dear ,
thats the whole problem.
Media is trying to force ppl to think that she was shaheed.
innocent,ignorant ppl are getting confused .
that was the whole point to begin this discussion.
media is trying to push us to one direction only.
thast not what they called Responsible Journalism.
I agree, its against our norms to criticize someoneâ€™s personality after his/her death. If the criticism was based on personality it should be stopped immediately but if the criticism was on actions and decisions which are still affecting the future of Pakistan should not be stopped and thats the Beenas point and i agree with this.
For the matter of Shaheed i totally disagree with Beena and i say Let Allah decide this.
23 scientists...blue prints..network..poineeer of NT abdul salam...wait a minute..gimme a break...am i watching 007.
Most of our Pakistani bahis think that they are 007 on the basis of some intentionally spreaded information and they think they are the only one in 160 million who knows this and rests are JAHILSâ€¦.come out of this phobia.
Please see the facts what they are dictating. I can write in detail for this topic and only based on my self knowledge not based on â€œSOME ANDER KA BANDAâ€ who just told ME the facts. I know personally few of these 23 scientists you mentioned.
Coming towards the topic, if you really want to compare BIBI with someone then please compare him with ZIA-UL-HAQ who was also killed. I know what you think about Zia-ul-haq based on your messages you wrote in different threads.
If someone is morally bankrupt according to you by criticizing someone dead then I am sorry to say you also fall in this category.
Tell me if our media, our politicians even bibi, our civil society, is not criticizing Zia for his policies and I am in the favor of this. Criticize policies because they are not dead only person is dead so donâ€™t just criticize his personal life anymore.
If someone will say something bad about her personal life, I will stand with you having my hands with your hands condemning this action.
@Lets Do it !
thanks for agreement ....
adn double thanks for disagreement ...
u have said what i want to say exactly ...
@let Allah to decide who is shaheed/.....
but unfortuantely here Media is deciding who is shaheed?
did media succeed in changing your prospective ?
ofcourse no is the answer from u .
we put too much hype on media but forget that gone are the days when people were spoon fed the propaganda .even when there was no media in ayub khan people revolted against him .most of the people i know even my house servants who dont have access to media were upset why she was killed .
look at bush ,now look at fox news the worst propaganda channel do u still think there is no anti bush sentiment even in america or all are buying that bullshit what fox is telling .
even though i do feel that media is not biased here but let me tell u in most of our rural areas its only "ptv" they get to watch .even in my own village they dont have cable dear .
if u dont like some programme u will not be niave to buy their propoganda .thats my point and one more thing u cannot get to watch everything u like on media .i dont like ptv so i dont buy whatever they try to feed me .we are not living in stone age and nor are the people so gullible here .
One good thing I noticed.
I guess, for the first time in Pakistan, the 'Sweets' and 'Cakes' were not exchanged, on the death of a political opponent.
(Certain groups and sections celebrated the death of Z.A. Bhutto and Zia-ul-Haq by exchanging Sweets and cakes and congratulations were offered by hugging.
She 'is', 'was', Shaheed or not, she deserves 'Nishan-i-Haider' or not, she deserves 'Sitara-i-Juraat' or not, does not matter.
Undoubtedly, she has earned enough honors at national as well as international level.
What we have given to other 'Shaheeds'?
Could we put any 'Shaheed' back into power?
one more point what did we get after every "shahdat" ?
I am sorry to make you emotional about A.Q Khan.
1. It was not between A.Q.Khan and BB; it was about the principle of 'Double Standards'.
2. I didn't 'invent' the terms, 23 scientists...blue prints..Network...poineeer of NT abdul salam (about whom you kept quiet), but Pakistan Media put on the record.
3. I was told where A.Q Khan admitted and confessed on Pakistan TV about the charges and asked for pardon. (I donâ€™t watch that confession), and the generous people of Pakistan pardoned him and put him under protection... No Objection. Sir.
4. I just asked for showing the same standard, spirit of generosity and compassion for BB, who is dead now and was the daughter of a person who produced and provided A.Q Khan, with an opportunity to become a Hero.
5. I felt bad where some of the scholars didn't wait even for a week and started throwing venom upon whole of her family and personal life as if they were waiting for the occurrence. A common sense of situation was not maintained.
(Please go back and read and analyze the postings)
5. Someone will come up with an irrelevant suggestion to compare Zia with Laiqat Ali as both were killed while in power.
7. It is not objectionable at all to discus a dead public figure. How could we stop reading History? In History, which is an abstract science, 2+2 are not always, 4.
Events change the shape according to the vessel.
In Muslim History, Mahmood Ghaznavi is Hero, in Hindu History, a villain and terrorist.
For the right wing, Zia-ul-Haq was Amir-al-Moomneen and champion of Islam, for the left wing he was a Devil, who brought black hole for Pakistan.
Both carry convincing arguments.
irfanx last edited by
I like your reaction on the term Shaheed BB. So ill try one more time to explain what i was saying. First thing accident in its meaning is something not done willingly and thats not the case in a suicide bomber. Have you ever heard of "Khatma e Imaan". Its an Islamic philosophy that whatever you do in you life but die on truth. If u know what i am talking about i will put my point in perspective.
These are the qualifying criteria for BB being a shaheed.
1. Died against her will (accident)
2. was killed (victim)
3. Struggling for democracy (even if it was 1 percent and 99 percent was power greed)
4. She represented peoples will (good or bad but people supported and wanted her)
If media calls her shaheed it does not honor her life it honors her death. I believe she might be involved in corruption but she died with grace.
Besides i would say make your heart a little big and forgive anyone who did a little good for Pakistan.
I respect your views and i strongly support you when it comes to discuss someones personal life after his/her death. Thats why i strongly said that if Media is calling her Shaheed, let them call because we have to do nothing with this. Its between God and her. She is shaheed or even if she is not, 160 million people will not be effected by this.
But the other point of Beena is very valid point. It was not the right wing nor left wing. It was media which was criticizing her on her deal, her support for Musharraf, and her attitude for judiciary. Now all of these were BIG negative points. Now she dies, May Allah bless her with Jannah, all of these negative points are still there and her party is following these.
Now i dont understand and please help me in understanding just this that if someone was saying few days ago that deal is to support USA and break pakistan, now the same person is saying this was her wisdom....How come???? its just one example...
I just dont understand how come someones death can make all negatives in your eyes a big positive. I am not talking for those who already supported her moves in her life. I am just talking for those who thought its negative but all of a sudden they start thinking it was wisdom. I could not just digest this.
Due to this my point of view was, As policies never dies so one should have every right to discuss the policies.
its just one thing we need to comprehend .
"media did not make her "shaheed" but those who killed her made her "shaheed" in the eyes of many people .
whats media got to dot with it .i watched every single media after her death they were infact paying tribute to her but they were discussing her life ,her decisions,her mistakes ,even murder of murtza ,corruption charges etc etc i dont know why we try to blame media .
God im too tired of this sterotype cries about media now .
guys if u don not like it dont watch it .
and if u think media can change your prospective or others than u r wrong here coz media did not change anyone prospective .
those who were against her policies like me will be always against her policies so what the hell .
those who support her will always think she was doing everything for the betterment so let move on from this topic now coz bashing media is a funny attitude .
again and again i said "will u buy the crap fox is telling" ofcourse u will not be niave to buy it ."
so make your own choice ,watch what u like there are more than 10 news channals so use your discretion guys ok .dont watch what u dont like or watch "dawn" only if u like their approach towards her death .
what gives .