So you guys think this is propoganda?



  • From today's Wall Street Journal

    MINGORA, Pakistan -- Thousands of Islamist militants are pouring into Pakistan's Swat Valley and setting up training camps here, quickly making it one of the main bases for Taliban fighters and raising their threat to the government in the wake of a controversial peace deal.

    President Asif Ali Zardari effectively ratified the government's deal with the Taliban Monday by signing a bill that imposes Islamic law in Swat, a key plank of the accord, hours after legislators overwhelmingly approved a resolution urging it. Pakistani officials have touted the deal, reached in February, as a way to restore peaceful order in the bloodied region -- which lies just a few hours' drive from the capital -- and halt the Taliban's advance.

    Yet a visit to the Taliban-controlled valley here found mounting evidence that the deal already is strengthening the militants as a base for war. U.S. officials contend the pact has given the Taliban and its allies in al Qaeda and other Islamist groups an advantage in their long-running battle against Pakistan's military.

    The number of militants in the valley swelled in the months before the deal with the Taliban was struck, and they continue to move in, say Pakistani and U.S. officials. They now estimate there are between 6,000 and 8,000 fighters in Swat, nearly double the number at the end of last year.

    Taliban leaders here make no secret of their ultimate aim. "Our objective is to drive out Americans and their lackeys" from Pakistan and Afghanistan, said Muslim Khan, a spokesman for the group, in an interview here. "They are not Muslims and we have to throw them out."

    Militant training camps are springing up across the valley's thickly forested mountainsides. "Young men with no prospect of employment and lack of education facilities are joining the militants," said Abdur Rehman, a schoolteacher in Swat.

    Until the fighting began nearly two years ago in the valley, it was a popular weekend getaway for well-heeled Pakistanis, known for its alpine ridges, fruit orchards and trout-filled streams. With the Taliban now imposing its harsh version of Islamic law, floggings and even executions are fast becoming commonplace. Residents said many young men are joining the militants to ensure the safety of their families, who they hope will be left in peace if one of their own is fighting the government.

    "We are all frightened by this brutality. No one can dare to challenge them," said Fazle Rabbi, who owns a cloth shop in Mingora, Swat's main town. The shop sits on a square that has become known among residents as "Slaughter Square" because the Taliban have begun using it to dump bodies after executions.

    Since the new peace deal was made, the militants are beginning to push into neighboring areas. Last week they overpowered a village militia in the adjacent Buner district. The attack was a violation of the peace accord. But the Taliban faction that controls Swat says it has no intention of withdrawing. "We want Islamic sharia [law] also to be enforced in Buner," said Mr. Khan. "No one can force us out from any part of the province."

    Many of the longer-term jihadist fighters are loyal to groups with ties to al Qaeda, such as Jaish-e-Mohammed. They have been hardened on battlefields in neighboring Afghanistan and the Kashmir region claimed by India and Pakistan -- underlining the growing confluence between the various Islamist groups fighting on either side of the Afghan-Pakistani border, the officials say.

    The Taliban and al Qaeda were once largely confined to a mountainous ribbon that runs along the Afghan border and has long existed in a semiautonomous limbo, technically part of Pakistan but never fully under the control of its government.

    In the past two years, however, the Taliban and its allies have pushed into areas where Pakistan's state had held sway, such as Swat, about 100 miles from Islamabad.

    Striking peace deals with some Taliban factions is part of Pakistan's broader strategy to counter the militants. The government's logic is that such accords can exploit the groups' fractious nature; one enemy can be neutralized with a peace deal while another is defeated on the battlefield. The deals also have been struck when the army has struggled to overcome militants. In Swat, about 3,000 militants pushed four times as many soldiers out of the valley in 18 months of fighting, leaving some 1,500 people dead.

    Nearly all the peace accords reached in the past few years in areas near the Afghan border, where the Taliban are strongest, have collapsed. Often they have left the militants more powerful. A similar deal in Swat fell apart last year after the Taliban renewed attacks on Pakistani forces.

    The Taliban's actions since the new peace deal was unveiled have alarmed Washington, where officials fear that Swat will become an effective launching pad for expansion into Pakistan's more densely populated plains. "This is a rest stop for the Taliban, it's nothing more," said a U.S. official in Washington.

    Swat now offers a glimpse of the Taliban's vision for Pakistan. They have taken control of the local government and the police, who have been ordered to shed their uniforms in favor of the traditional Shalwar Kameez, an outfit comprising a long shirt and loose trousers. They also have seized Swat's emerald mines, which extract millions of dollars a year in gemstones.

    At barbershops, notices warn men not to shave their beards. Women are no longer allowed to leave their homes without their husbands or male blood relatives. Girls' schools have been reopened after initially being closed but the students must be covered from head to toe, and Taliban officials routinely inspect classrooms for violators.

    "We used to have lots of cultural and extracurricular activities in the school, but all that has been stopped," said Ziaullah Yousaf Zai, a principal of a private girls' school in Mingora. "We do not want to give any pretext to the Taliban to shut the school again."

    Mr. Khan, the Taliban spokesman, predicted there would soon be more executions, showing off a list of people whom the Taliban want to try in Islamic courts for what he called their "anti-Islamic" ways. The list includes senior government officials, a woman whose husband is in the U.S. military, and others. Many of them have fled or are in areas outside Taliban control

    "These kinds of people should not live," said Mr. Khan, who also is a commander in the Tehrik-e-Taliban, a broader Taliban alliance focused on battling the Pakistani government.

    Islamic courts haven't yet been set up in Swat because Pakistani President Zardari had delayed signing the bill to impose sharia, as the peace deal stipulates. Until Monday, he had maintained there first must be complete peace in the valley, though he didn't explain how he would determine that, nor did he address it Monday.

    Mr. Zardari's delay was widely viewed as an attempt to save face with opponents of the deal in his own government and Washington. He relented after the Parliament vote established support from almost every national political party, said a senior official close to the president. One party walked out in opposition.

    Mr. Khan had warned of more bloodshed if Islamic law was not formally imposed. "It does not matter to us whether the peace deal stays or not. No one can stop us from setting up our own courts," he said.

    The Taliban were already imposing their own version of sharia, which has been interpreted with wide variations by Islamic scholars for centuries. Pakistani television stations recently broadcast a video of a woman being flogged by black-turbaned Taliban in Swat. Most official accounts say she was alleged to have left her house without a male blood relative.

    While Mr. Khan insisted the video was a fake, he acknowledged that such an incident did happen. "As a Muslim, we cannot allow a woman to violate Islamic values," he said.





  • Bullshit



  • I really want to know what is the frame of mind of so many of you who support this peace making venture with the taliban...

    how can this be anything BUT negative?



  • Actually people love taliban so they try to protect them from every angle they would say its all propaganda then thay will ask government to negotiate with them ,from Karachi to khaiber thousand of Jangjoos are ready for a call ,At the end China would cleanup this mess



  • بونیر میں طالبان کی ’بھرتی مہم‘

    رفعت اللہ اورکزئی

    بی بی سی اردو ڈاٹ کام، پشاور

    طالبان

    بونیر میں نوجوان طبقہ طالبان کی مہم میں دلچسپی لے رہا ہے اور کئی نوجوان ان کے ساتھ شامل بھی ہوئے ہیں: عینی شاہد

    صوبہ سرحد کے ضلع بونیر میں طالبان نے معاہدے کے بعد اپنی سرگرمیاں تیز کرتے ہوئے ’بھرتی مہم‘ شروع کردی ہے جس کے تحت لوگوں سے براہ راست رابطہ کرکے ان کو ’بھرتی‘ کیا جارہا ہے۔

    بونیر کے ایک سرکاری اہلکار نے بی بی سی سے بات کرتے ہوئےتصدیق کی کہ چار دن پہلے ہونے والے معاہدے کے بعد سوات کے طالبان کی بونیر سے واپسی تو شروع ہوگئی ہے تاہم دوسری طرف بونیر کے مقامی طالبان نے اپنی سرگرمیاں تیز کرتے ہوئے علاقے میں بھرتی مہم شروع کردی ہے۔

    عینی شاہدین کا کہنا ہے کہ طالبان صدر مقام ڈگر اور اردگرد کے علاقوں کی مساجد اور بازاروں میں لوگوں کو جمع کرکے انہیں ضلع میں شرعی نظام کے حصول کےلیے اپنا حمایتی بنانے کی کوششیں کررہے ہیں۔

    ایک عینی شاہد نے بی بی سی کو بتایا کہ عسکریت پسند لوگوں کو کہتے ہیں کہ ’طالبان علاقے میں شرعی نظام لانے کےلیے کوشش کر رہے ہیں، لہذا وہ ان کا ساتھ دیں‘۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ بونیر میں نوجوان طبقہ طالبان کی مہم میں دلچسپی لے رہا ہے اور کئی نوجوان ان کے ساتھ شامل بھی ہوچکے ہیں۔

    دوسری طرف طالبان نے بگھڑا پولیس چوکی پر قبضہ ختم کردیا ہے اور وہاں مقامی انتظامیہ نے اب ایف سی اہلکاروں کو تعینات کردیا گیا ہے۔ ایک سرکاری اہلکار نے بتایا کہ طالبان نے چند دن پہلے چوکی پر قبضہ کرلیا تھا جبکہ چوکی سے ملحقہ ایک سرکاری سکول بھی غیر اعلانیہ طور پر بند ہوگیا تھا۔

    طالبان کی سرگرمیاں ڈگر اور آس پاس کے علاقوں کی تقریباً تین یونین کونسلوں تک پھیل گئی ہیں جبکہ پیر بابا مزار پر بھی بدستور ان کا کنٹرول بتایا جاتا ہے۔

    مقامی لوگ

    مقامی لوگوں کا کہنا ہے کہ طالبان کی سرگرمیاں ڈگر اور آس پاس کے علاقوں کی تقریباً تین یونین کونسلوں تک پھیل گئی ہیں جبکہ پیر بابا مزار پر بھی بدستور ان کا کنٹرول بتایا جاتا ہے۔

    چند دن قبل بونیر کے مقامی لشکر اور سوات کے طالبان کے درمیان ہونے والی ایک جھڑپ میں تین پولیس اہلکاروں سمیت چھ افراد ہلاک ہوگئے تھے اور طالبان نے پیر با با کے مزار پر کنٹرول حاصل کرلیا تھا۔ تاہم بعد میں ایک معاہدہ طے پایا تھا جس کے تحت سوات کے طالبان کی بونیر سے واپسی شروع ہوگئی تھی۔

    سوات میں طالبان کے ترجمان حاجی مسلم خان نے کہا تھا کہ کہ وہ ضلع بونیر میں قاضی عدالتوں کے قیام اور نگرانی کرنے کے لیے آئے ہیں جبکہ مقامی لوگوں کا مؤقف تھا کہ یہ کام حکومت خود بھی کرسکتی ہے۔

    یا رہے کہ بونیر کی عوام اور سوات کے طالبان کے درمیان پہلے سے ہی اختلافات چلے آ رہے ہیں اور فریقین کے درمیان کئی مسلح جھڑپیں بھی ہو چکی ہیں۔ پچھلےسال بونیر میں قومی اسمبلی کے ضمنی انتخابات کے موقع پرطالبان نےشل بانڈئی میں پولنگ اسٹیشن پر مبینہ خودکش حملہ کیا تھا جس میں تقریباً چالیس سے زائد افراد ہلاک ہوئے تھے۔



  • The two references which are posted are from Wall Street Journal and BBC. Lolz

    Please quote me a single resident which is living in these areas. Please tell me who have given you right to decide for those who you only know only from western media. I will Inshallah post sometime the real stories of that area, what is written in BBC and wall street journal is a B**Sit



  • I am visiting peshawar in next 24 hours with 2 of my western friends and we are planning to go to swat for 48 hours to see the actual place of interest.. I will post my experience if I did return.. LOL..



  • so khan_sahib and usman1234,

    muslim khan did not say those things?

    the article is written by an a journalist who visited the area.

    Yet a visit to the Taliban-controlled valley here found mounting evidence that the deal already is strengthening the militants as a base for war. U.S. officials contend the pact has given the Taliban and its allies in al Qaeda and other Islamist groups an advantage in their long-running battle against Pakistan's military.

    WSJ has an impeccable reputation in the west. WSJ has great sources in Pakistan for the story it leads on. This article too, is written by a well established journalist living pakistan, Mr. Zahid Hussain.

    How can you denounce a whole bloody article by saying it's "bullshit"



  • @opportunity

    Taliban leaders here make no secret of their ultimate aim. "Our objective is to drive out Americans and their lackeys" from Pakistan and Afghanistan, said Muslim Khan, a spokesman for the group, in an interview here. "They are not Muslims and we have to throw them out."

    I actually agree with this point only BUT I don't agree with their version of Islam.

    They will spread very soon in all pakistan before you know it..

    Our govt has made a lot of mistakes in the past and this govt is doing the same!

    I have lost hope with this govt!



  • "I am visiting peshawar in next 24 hours with 2 of my western friends and we are planning to go to swat for 48 hours"

    I dont think going to swat with goras is a very good idea



  • I guess the strategy of Operation CCASS is at work.

    Combine

    Consolidate

    Aim

    Spray

    Sweep



  • @Khan sahib,

    i agree with codefraeq.

    if you wanna go to Swat.

    go to youself.

    dont take your foreigner friends along.



  • Thanks codefraeq and beenai, for your advice.

    I been told by my contacts the same. They will stay in peshawar now though one of the greek doc who looks lika a talibaan still wants to go but I have forced him to stay.



  • @Khan sahib,

    good guy.......

    mulk ki izzat ka maumla hay ...

    apnay foreigner friends ko Peshawer kay Chapli kabab khilyeee.

    Peshaweri chappal dilayeee ...

    peshawer ki bara market ghumayeee ...

    but Khuda kay liye swat na laye jaye.



  • Wah wah,

    Kaya rhyme keeya hay!

    Wasey woh zindagee say baizaar hey!

    Becchara gham ka marra hay, urdu uss ko atee nahee warna mehboob kee bewafayee pay kucch ghalib jaisey shair zaroor boal dayta!

    But really, I am amazed by the knowlwdge of my greeks friend about pakistan specially the internal politics.. How many of us even can locate their country on the map!



  • @Khan sahib,

    give ur greek friend english version of Faiz poetry.

    he would love it.

    if he knows english........

    yes .....

    other ppl are more aware of us then we are about them.

    thats the tragedy.



  • He knows faiz, rehman baba, iqbal by heart!

    He even knows more about pukhtoon culture then me.

    It is sad that we (I am just pointing towards my ignorance here) are shallow ion our knowledge about the world.. And he is not the only one, I have italian, arab colleagues who know more then us about us. :-(

    By the way, musshraf is a gal's name in turkey! It was funny when a beautiful turkish gal refused to tell me her name for over a week as she thought that I will make fun of her name as being a guys name due to Musshy(which I obviously did.. LOL)



  • Just realised about your comment above,

    Yes, he knows english (Hmmmmm working in london as a surgeon will make u speak hinnglish if not greeklissh... :)