OBL Dead Or Alive ?
Griffin has placed a strong weapon of truth in our hands with which to stop the brutal war in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Let’s use it! << << THINK PEOPLE THINK
May 26, 2009 "Information Clearing House" -- - Osama Bin Laden: Dead Or Alive? by David Ray Griffin is a crucially important and timely examination of the whole range of evidence bearing on the question, is Osama bin Laden still alive? The importance of this question for the present comes from the fact that the United States under its new president is escalating its offensive in Afghanistan and expanding the war into Pakistan, and has claimed that the “hunt for bin Laden” is one of its principal motivations for doing so. Either explicitly or implicitly, the US government and major media outlets such as The New York Times and Washington Post continue to assert that bin Laden is alive, hiding in the tribal territories on the “AfPak” border, posing an undiminished threat to US security.
In his gripping new book, Griffin strikes at the root of this pretext for war by closely examining all the evidence that has come out since September 11, 2001, either indicating that bin Laden is still alive or that he is in fact dead. His conclusion is that bin Laden is certainly dead, and that in all likelihood he died in very late 2001. Griffin shows that many US experts in counterterrorism and counterinsurgency came to this very same conclusion long ago, but their views, which do not support the continuation of what President Obama, borrowing the term from Dick Cheney, calls “the long war,” have received very little media attention. Were they to do so, one of the main props for the war regime would be undermined.
In Chapter 1, “Evidence that Osama bin Laden is Dead”, Griffin surveys in detail the many different indications published in the major media in late 2001 and early 2002 that bin Laden had been very ill and had died. These included a December, 2001 video in which he appeared to be at death’s door (as admitted by a Bush administration spokesperson), analyses by medical experts of the grave state of his health, the sudden and total cessation in December, 2001 of any surveillance intercepts of communications from him, and even reports of his funeral. In this early period, various high-level officials in the US and Pakistani governments, including Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and President Pervez Musharraf, speculated that he was dead. By mid-2002 many experts had concluded that he was dead, including FBI counterterrorism official Dale Watson, President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, and Israeli intelligence officials. The conviction that he died in 2001 is held today by former intelligence operatives Robert Baer and Angelo Codevilla.
In Chapter 2, “Two Fake bin Laden Videos in 2001?”, Griffin shows that two videos which purportedly showed bin Laden taking credit for the attacks of 9/11 and thus established his guilt for them, were not only very conveniently timed for the Bush and Blair administrations’ legislative and military agendas, but also were highly suspect for other reasons. One of them was never actually released, but simply claimed by the Blair government. The other showed a bin Laden who did not physically resemble the genuine bin Laden of earlier videos, in which he in fact denied responsibility for the 9/11 attacks. Griffin presents strong arguments that both claimed videos were faked, suggests likely motivations behind such a risky undertaking, and cites the opinions of experts (including the FBI) who came to this conclusion long ago.
In Chapter 3, “Purported bin Laden Messages After 2001”, Griffin argues that if fake bin Laden videos were produced in this early period, when he was probably still alive, then there is even stronger reason to be suspicious of “bin Laden videos” or other claimed “messages” that were released later, after all communications intercepts from him had ceased and many experts had concluded that he was dead. Yet, in subsequent years, a long series of such dubious “bin Laden messages” were released. Griffin presents an exhaustive survey of 19 of these, from an “email message” of March, 2002 to the “bin Laden audiotape” of January 14, 2009. For each and every one, Griffin identifies key indications of fakery or strong reasons to be suspicious of its authenticity. In the course of the discussion of the messages, he establishes that the technical capability to fabricate fake messages of the different types already existed.
In Chapter 4, Griffin turns to the important question “Who Might Have Been Motivated To Fabricate Messages?” He shows that the US military in the run-up to the invasion of Iraq in 2003 employed a psychological operations unit to produce bogus evidence of a link between Saddam Hussein and Al Qaeda, as a pretext for the invasion. The psyops unit produced a “letter” from a Jordanian in Iraq, Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi, that was then “intercepted”, purportedly enroute to Al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan. The psyop was advanced after the invasion by the New York Times reporter Dexter Filkins, who wrote front-page stories presenting the “evidence” as genuine. Journalists at other organizations, including Newsweek magazine and The Telegraph of London, however, thought it highly likely at the time that the letter was bogus. Griffin concludes that the target of the psychological operation was the US public. He asks, could something very similar have been going on with the “bin Laden messages”? Does the US government desire to expand its war operations anywhere, say into the precise places it claims bin Laden is still living in? Based on the evidence Griffin presents, there is no reason to assume that comparable psyops would not be utilized to achieve this goal.
In Chapter 5, “The Convenient Timing of Many of the Messages”, Griffin shows that another reason to suspect the inauthenticity of the “bin Laden messages” is that they frequently were released at key moments when they would benefit the Bush administration in the pursuit of particular objectives. In other words, the “messages” were almost always objectively detrimental to the enemies of the US, and beneficial to the Bush administration or the Blair government. Griffin lists 11 specific instances of this unusual characteristic of the “messages.”
Osama Bin Laden: Dead Or Alive? by David Ray Griffin is a book to rally around – that is, a basis on which we can mobilize and organize resistance to yet another incalculably bloody war of aggression by the predatory military-industrial-financial elite that runs this country, and is running it into the abyss. Griffin has placed a strong weapon of truth in our hands with which to stop the brutal war in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Let’s use it!
Osama bin who?
In September 2001, an American request for the Israelis to share their information about Osama bin Laden went unanswered. At first, the Americans thought the Israelis were for some reason hiding their information. It was, however, only after heads of the secret intelligence service (Mossad) and the military intelligence service (Aman) went to Washington in person that the American administration learned the extraordinary inside story about what was going on.
The reason why the American request went unanswered was that the Israelis did not have any substantial raw intelligence information about Bin Laden and his friends. And the reason for this is that Israel was not on Bin Laden's hit list. And since Bin Laden was not threatening Israel, the Israelis did not threaten him. He was never on the annual list of Islamist extremists issued by the espionage and security services.
NNL, Good post. I saw his video on 9/11 on C-span tv. Mainstream media are reluctant to bring this theology professor in front of TV .
This is not the video but there was one I had before. Those links are not working. This is a recent interview.
Bin Laden's voice was detected regularly until [14 December 2001] by intelligence operatives monitoring radio transmissions in Tora Bora, according to the Pentagon [details]. Since then, nothing has been heard from the al-Qa'eda leader and President Bush has hinted in private that bin Laden's silence could mean he has been killed. [Telegraph, 12/28/2001]
OBL was a stooge of US.
They created him ...the patronage him
to make an excuse to enter in the Muslim world.
and conquer Afghanistan .
through this they can have a passage to Pakistan and Iran.
two of the muslim countries they r deadly against with and really wanna wipe these two from the map of this world.
"wanna wipe these two from the map of this world. "
I can see the frustration..LOL..but hey become the DG ISI...please...please..we need people like you working for the agency...lol
if u have no serious in put ...
plz dont try to jump into any thread just like that.
sorry if it felt that way.What I meant was to point at an utter failure of our intelligence agencies or utter-collaboration of them to foreign agencies...God knows!
This post is deleted!
Just a side note.On national television we saw a naked dead body obviously killed in a combat and i didnt notice a single post about it that what psychological effect it would give to the general population?Is it different than any fanatics showing murder videos?
Offcourse the barbaric throat slitting is condemnable and thanks God they didnt show it on TV.
What level of indifference we have reached?The POW war are subjected to geneva convention and their treatment afer capture becomes responsibility of the Army.They clearly were combatants.And the Army in this video looked more like what we see in thana culture.
(or if they were not then this video is questionable)
The people looked like Lahore police instead of our Army jawans.I guess training needs to be improved.
showing dead bodies ,chopped or bombed body parts ,blood and face of the raped woman is all prohibited in all the code of conducts of media .
whether its British code or US code.
we in Pakistan ,follow British code of conduct for media ,with additions to some terms according to our own culture like not to show anti Jinnah remarks,not to show Pak flag burning ,not to show caricatures of independence movement leaders etc.
but unfortunately our news media is getting too independent that it has forgotten the code of conduct set to sustain its own credibility .
thats why they are showing us dead bodies and chopped heads ............
i cant forgot the heads and body parts of Sunni Tehreek ppl has been shown on all Tv channels ...when that incident of bombing of whole leadership of sunni tehreek occured two years back.
Hillary's account of the operation
Watch carefully the video of Abbotabad jalsah .
Woh ya us ki rooh nazar aa jaiay shaid .
haahaahaa..Kam, you are soo funny
اسامہ بن لادن اور امریکہ کے بارے ميں آپ کے بے بنیاد الزامات
فورم کے ايک ممبر نے يہ بالکل بے بنیاد الزام لگايا ہے کہ اسامہ بن لادن ایک امریکی کٹھپتلی تھا اور اسے امریکہ کی طرف سے پاکستان اور مسلم دنيا ميں اپنے خفیہ ایجنڈے کا جواز پیش کرنے کے لئے پیدا کیا گیا تھا. تاہم، میں مکمل طور پر آپ کے اس جھوٹے اور بے بنیاد نظریہ سے متفق نہیں ہوں جس ميں آپ اسامہ بن لادن کو امريکی ایجنٹ کے طور پر پيش کرنے کی کوشش کررہے ہیں۔ نہايت ادب کے ساتھ، مجھے کہنا پڑ رہا ہے کہ آپ دنيا کے حالات اور زمینی حقائق سے بالکل ھی بے خبر ہيں۔
ميں بتاتا چلوں، کہ آپ جان بوجھ کراس اہم حقيقت کوکہ القاعدہ نے امریکہ کے خلاف 1990 میں جنگ کا اعلان کیا اور دنيا ميں امریکی اہداف پر کئی بار حملے کیے کو نظر انداز کر رہے ہیں ۔ آپ اتنی آسانی سے کیوں بھول جاتے ہیں کہ امریکی وطن پر 11 ستمبر کو القاعدہ کی طرف سے حملہ کیا گیا تھا جس ميں ہزاروں معصوم لوگوں کو قتل کياگيا ؟
9/11 کے حملوں کے بعد، امریکہ اور دوسرے بین الاقوامی دوست ممالک القاعدہ کے محفوظ ٹھکانوں کو ختم کرنے اور افغانی علاقے کودنيا بھرميں دہشتگرد سرگرميوں کيلۓ استعمال سے روکنے کيلۓ افغانستان گئے تھے ۔
اس کا ذکر کرنا بھی نہايت ضروری ہے کہ القاعدہ کے بانی رہنما اسامہ بن لادن کا نام مئی 2011 ميں مرنے تک ایف بی آئی کے مشہور دہشت گردوں کی لسٹ ميں سب سے اوپر تھا ۔ مجھے سمجھ میں نہیں آ رہا، کہ آپ اسامہ بن لادن اور امريکی حکومت کی وابستگی کے بارے میں اس قسم کا بیان کس طرح دے سکتے ہيں۔ میں اس بات کو یقینی طور سے کہہ سکتا ہوں کہ امریکی حکومت کا اسامہ بن لادن اور ان کی دہشت گرد تنظیم کے ساتھ کسی بھی قسم کا تعلق نہیں تھا ۔ اس کے علاوہ آپ کے پاس کوئی بھی ثبوت نہیں ہے کہ وہ امريکی حکومت سے منسلک تھا۔ دہشتگردی کے خلاف جاری عالمی جنگ ميں امریکہ کا مقصد القاعدہ اور دوسرے شدت پسند گروہوں کو شکست دینے اور دنیا کو ایک زیادہ محفوظ اور پرامن جگہ بنانے کا ہی ہے ۔
مذکورہ بالا حقائق کو ذہن میں رکھ کر، ميں بتاتا چلوں، پاکستان اور مسلم دنیا میں اپنے چھپے ہوئے مقاصد حصول کے لئے کہ اسامہ بن لادن کے ساتھ امريکی حکومت کے کنکشن کے بارے میں آپ کے الزامات بالکل غلط ہيں۔ يہ محض ایک بے بنیاد نظریہ ہے ، جو سچ اور حقیقت سے بہت دور ہے ۔
تاشفين – ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم – يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ
دنیا کو ایک زیادہ محفوظ اور پرامن جگہ بنانے کا ہی ہے
ooper jo aap nay bakwaas likhee hai yeh us mai ki subh sai ghatiya baat hai