Muslim Community and British Politicians

  • Muslim Community and British Politicians

    Jim Fitzpatrick, a British minister criticized the segregation of male and female guests at Muslim wedding. Yet another 'Gaffe' from another jumped up, half-baked, ill-educated Labour moron; a former fireman indeed. He learned nothing about putting out fires rather than starting them. He actually has a GCSE 'D' in Politics? God Help us internationally if he is ever made a Diplomat. I suppose he left in a huff because there was no beer an' 'Am sandwiches at the buffet. The Minister's action is just a stupid, attention-getting stunt appealing to prejudices. This serves only to inflame the prejudices so widespread today. People have their customs, and you don't insult them. It hasn't been that long since our society had some public institutions that kept men and women separate. And it hasn't been that long since women in our society typically wore hats with veils. Plenty of Western customs, we accept as normal, are unacceptable or ridiculous to others.

    Muslim marriage is a religious ceremony. He insulted the bride and groom for his own political gain. They should not walk out because it would have been bad manners and rudeness to do so. They should respect the couple wishes, it’s their big day. He should have ascertained what the customs are beforehand, and then not attended if he thinks the practice offensive. One should have respect of others people's customs, even if one does not agree. Perhaps he should grow up and get an injection of reality. If you are not prepared to accept this then don't go or don't insult the bride and groom by walking out. What a disgusting small minded little man. Just shows the caliber of today's MP's from all parties. Well being a Labour politician his appalling ignorance of Islamic tradition plus downright rudeness to his hosts does not surprise me in the least. He should do his homework instead of ruining someone’s day. He is totally an ignorant person. If a Muslim wants to have separation at a wedding (like much of the Muslim world) then they should be allowed to, and don't insult them when they do. Jewish wedding has observed the tradition of separating of men & women at ceremonies, without raising any eyebrows. Men and women are separated in Masajid and Synagogues. Muslim secondary schools are also segregated.

    In the past another British Minister Jack Straw caused a similar furore when he referred to Muslim veils as “a visible statement of separation and difference” and called for women to remove them during surgeries in his Blackburn constituency. No one has the right to ban the freedom of choice in a secular and democratic country. The right to choice is a basic fundamental right the person should have. To veil or not to veil should be an individual choice. Dress codes are for children. Muslim women should be free to wear burqas. If women get Away with wearing cropped shirts and pants that show their panties, they should be able to wear burqas too.

    Globalisation is here to stay, Muslims are here to stay and so are other communities. Those idiot British ministers need to learn that the world is made up of different people and the British society and its Establishment need to learn to accept and tolerate every culture for what it is and most importantly respect and tolerate the values of each and every religion.

    Iftikhar Ahmad

  • Most of these so called british Pakistani leaders have no educational or political background. I find most of them with an IQ of a 5 years old kid. Unless the new generation of Pakistanis (3rd generation Pakistanis) takes over, I would not expect ny change. (This is a very optimistic view as most of the 2nd generation pakistanis are ashamed to be linked to Pakistan....

  • This is a very optimistic view as most of the 2nd generation pakistanis are ashamed to be linked to Pakistan....

    I guess the same is everywhere then Cos this is exactly whats happening in US too.

  • I have friends and family in US and Canada too and for them Pakistan is just a country from where they originated from and is a holiday spot to attend weddings, eat pakistani food, show off their $$$ and £££ and look down upon the Pakistanis. I was actually amazed to meet a Pakistani in NY who left Pakistan just 3 years ago and was telling me that Pakistan is too "unsafe and hot" to visit! LOL (he was born n bred for 33 years in karachi)

    I have no hopes from 3rd generation Pakistanis (exception is always there but I am talking about most of the Pakistanis) abroad... once pass this generation you will see a new breed of ABCD and BBCD...

  • true

    yesterday i had the opportunity to play cricket with the boys in the community.

    Now all 25+ guys were playing cricket and those of the 2nd generation started playing football (american one)

    One of the things noticed was that those who played Football werent happy with the guys playing cricket.

    Cos this is not their sport of the country blah blah blah.

    after every one left one indian kid said i hate those kids i asked why ? its not good on their part not to play cricket. And i said cmon dont lose hope they are trying to assimilate. He said what assimilate they dont even are considered as friends by the goras so what are they trying to pull off over here.

    I was surprised by the Indian kid. Muslim Senior in high school on way to be a hafiz but Masha Allah has more sense than the rest of them .

  • Khan_Sahib

    Welcome. We miss your presence at the forum.

  • Khan sahib,


    I have no hopes from 3rd generation Pakistanis (exception is always there but I am talking about most of the Pakistanis) abroad... once pass this generation you will see a new breed of ABCD and BBCD...

    Well said Khan sahib,It is 100%true.

    Here in canada,Pakistan is a holiday destination for most pakistanies and thairs childrens.More than 90%of these pakistanies dont care about pakistan.

  • Thanks Mirza Sahib.. I have been a bit busy with my work and travelling. Inshallah, will be back in motion soon..


  • @ Khan Sahib,

    1. I know a number of Pakistanis who decided to resettle in their native birth place, Pakistan, but just after a stay for a few months, all their emotional nationalism and patriotism was evaporated just like an opened bottle of Soda.

    2. After looking at the social, political, moral and economic scenario, what the immigrants witness @ the Media, we should not blame those who managed for immigration.

    3. There should not be any heart burning where some of the Pakistanis succeeded to cross the tunnel with a hope for bright and better life for their future generations.

    4. Me, my husband and children would love to return to our town in Pakistan, provided we are convinced to see a light at the end of the tunnel.

    5. We are desperately looking for a single Pakistan TV channel, Newspaper or Talk Show to get a promising and encouraging news about our beloved Pakistan.

    (If you know one, please let me know @ the Pkpolitics.)

  • Ahmad and NNL,

    It’s worrying and honestly, I won't blame any of these kids but their parents. You can still find kids who are more Pakistani then American/british/canadian as there parents took interest in their Pakistani brought up/education.

    Unfortunately (with apologies from any British on this forum) the first generation Pakistanis were brought to UK by the Gora Sahib as driver, Cook, maids or labor force. These people have worked really hard to earn bread n butter for their families but in that race of money they ignored the education of their kids. Very few families have uneducated parents and educated kids. In Health sector, you will find most of the Pakistani doctors working are actually Non resident Pakistanis rather then British born Pakistanis. I don’t think that anything can now change this trend. All you can work on is your own kids or Pakistani kids living in Pakistan.

  • yes thats another depressing point

    that Pakistani Doctors or engineers are either coming in from Pakistan in US or educated ni Pakistan and doing masters here while all the local population is acting more like the uneducated people.

    The will to succeed is gone and those Pakistanis who do actually make it to such uni are more trying to be Goras rather then be themselves.

  • @zjshami

    I am not criticizing any Pakistanis who have migrated abroad. I am criticizing every Pakistani who after moving out of Pakistan forgot their roots!

    Who cares about why any one left Pakistan? I am more concerned about the future generation. It will be a "Failure" on our part if we let our future generation drift away from their Pakistani roots.

    No one is asking anyone to move back to Pakistan but my point is the future of our generation.

    I have tried to move back to Pakistan too but due to the corruption, security issues, power break down and most important, the corruption in the health sector left me with no choice but to stay away for some more time but Inshallah at some stage I will return to Pakistan... Sooner then later but this time with proper preparation and after burning all my ships. :-)

  • Yaar Khan Sahib

    have you seen those ads of the Indians promoting their own private clinics in US for the purposes of vacationing and treatment and includes all the perks of vacationing as well.

    If you remember Surgeon Rahman in Cardio Karachi i think he has opened such a facility in NWFP ( not sure)

    We need something like that more so that there is atleast some hope left.

  • Yes, He has established a good center in Hayatabad in Peshawar which is at par with any international hospital. Unfortunately he had his own heart fixed (bypass) few years ago so he has kindda taken a backseat. Most of the patients in his hospital are from Afghanistan as it’s the first Hospital after reaching the Afghan/Pak border (as there are none in Afghanistan for obvious reasons)

    Indians are very organized in whatever they do... We as Pakistani nation like Chaos... just like our army and Politicians... :)

  • Yaar i was hoping that some of the good chap in US and UK build something like OMI and other good hospitals

    so that the care level is better in our country.

  • @ Khan Sahib,

    I agree.

    No doubt, it is a healthy and positive desire to motivate Pakistani families living overseas to keep the children within the premises of their basis cultural domain.

    It is not only true for Pakistanis living in the Western countries but also think about a majority of Pakistanis living in Pakistan who are more critical than the Immigrants.

    Each time I make a call to Pakistan, the party at the other end makes me more frustrated by telling about the same problems, you already mentioned at your post.

    What I feel the Pure and First Generation of Pakistan is getting more frustrated an angry, what to talk about the second or third one.

    If any hope, it would is the Fourth Generation who could make Pakistan a good living place. Inshallah.

  • I always say this and my elders used to scold me that Pakistan has reached to its present state by the generation of 50 to 60's cuz this is the generation who has no direct role in the formation of Pakistan but they were there to reap the benefit of a newly born country with lax rules.

    This generation (again, there are exception like always) has damaged Pakistan more then any enemy but the generation of 70 through 90's have a different attitude though again they have been poisoned by MQM,PPP,ANP,JI,PML,JUP,JUI and likes of other political and regional parties with ethnic and sectarian divide. But regardless, I have a greater hope from this generation.

  • True Khan Sahib

  • UK is host to far bigger Pakistani community than the US, but if you monitor the traffic on this site you'll be surprised that twice as many people login from US as compared to UK.

    UK has 3 generations of Pakistanis including British-born, and during last 3 years 20K student visas were granted to Pakistanis.

    I fail to understand why there is a lack of interest among those people?

    On one hand we have people like Oriel (born and bred in UK) concerned about Pakistan more than the Pakistani borns and on the other hand we have folks who are totally oblivious of situation backhome, and don't spare any opportunity to bash Pakistan (I hate them).

    PS: salam and WB Khan sahib

  • Khan Sahib:

    I think you missed the meaning of the initial post. The post is commenting on the idiocy and bullishness of a gora politician and his lack of understanding of segregation within the Islamic culture. The post was not commenting on Pakistani politicians in Britain or even British-born muslims of Pakistani origin.

    From the comments on the initial post and from the articles to which it is referring, one could say that British Muslims of Pakistani descent are veering more avidly towards their roots in Islam rather than their Pakistani roots.

    I personally have had many many interactions with my peer group (British muslims of Pak origin), since childhood. There is a fast-paced movement within the 3rd geberation in the UK that is actively rejecting the illogical, ignorant parts of both the Pakistani and British culture, in favour of the Islamic path (just the amount of Muslim youth choosing to wear the jilbab/headscarf as opposed to dupatta and shalwar kameez is the most obvious sign of this movement).

    With regards to your pessimism towards the 1st-3rd generations living here in the UK. I would respectfully suggest you know alot more about your own peer group than you do about the 1st-3rd generation of Pakistanis.

    It would be easy to get into a heated debate about who are the more capable: Pakistanis residing in Pak or their counterparts in Western countries. But that would be a futile exercise, much like "my mother is better than your mother".